Who flies this flag?

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:07 pm

beretta24 wrote:Lincoln never entertained the slavery angle until well into the war. In fact, as I recall he stated as much as he ran for office the first time. Slavery became a means to gain an edge after living through a long and bloody war. I'm not proclaiming that he condoned slavery, as he was clearly against it's expansion into the northern states, but the war didn't start over slavery. It started over money.

^^^^^this^^^^^^

X1000
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana


Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:26 pm

It started over slavery........ the cover for getting the shooting match going was money. Southern apologists like the idea that it didn't start over slavery, because that's the issue where the south is most clearly culpable. But it doesn't wash
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
User avatar
blackduckdog2
hunter
 
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:02 am

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 7:41 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:It started over slavery........ the cover for getting the shooting match going was money. Southern apologists like the idea that it didn't start over slavery, because that's the issue where the south is most clearly culpable. But it doesn't wash

sigh....not worth my time to even explain, we've cover this topic before.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:00 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:It started over slavery........ the cover for getting the shooting match going was money. Southern apologists like the idea that it didn't start over slavery, because that's the issue where the south is most clearly culpable. But it doesn't wash

sigh....not worth my time to even explain, we've cover this topic before.

Yeah...........but I didn't buy it then either Inda. This is one of the greatest myths that the south would like to promote. It's really fairly preposterous. Slavery was BY FAR the social engine for that fiasco, and nit-picking the minutae for lesser motivations is never gonna wash. I know it sells in the south, but the country knows what happened
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
User avatar
blackduckdog2
hunter
 
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:02 am

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby cartervj » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:01 pm

Just like folks not liking Obama, it is not about the color of his skin, it's about his politics. He's an ideologue that for not Valerie Jarrett, he'd be absolutely clueless.
“Nothing makes me more certain of the victory of our ideas than our success in the universities” – Adolf H, 1930
User avatar
cartervj
hunter
 
Posts: 7357
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: NW AL

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:39 pm

blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:It started over slavery........ the cover for getting the shooting match going was money. Southern apologists like the idea that it didn't start over slavery, because that's the issue where the south is most clearly culpable. But it doesn't wash

sigh....not worth my time to even explain, we've cover this topic before.

Yeah...........but I didn't buy it then either Inda. This is one of the greatest myths that the south would like to promote. It's really fairly preposterous. Slavery was BY FAR the social engine for that fiasco, and nit-picking the minutae for lesser motivations is never gonna wash. I know it sells in the south, but the country knows what happened

It was ECONOMIC! slavery was secondary to this fact.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:41 pm

South Carolina was the first state to secede and in December of 1860 they made it pretty clear as to why they chose to do so.
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:47 pm

Industry primarily fueled the north. agriculture in the South. With the invention of the cotton gin, massive acres in the south were turned over to growing cotton to supply the gins, which sent raw cotton north to the factories. This required a huge increase in labor to get the cotton out of the fields. slavery was the means at the time. The assault on slavery was an assault on the economics of the South.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:55 pm

But Inda, South Carolina's declaration of secession doesn't mention the economic impact. It is almost completely centered around states rights and citizens property rights.
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:58 pm

clampdaddy wrote:But Inda, South Carolina's declaration of secession doesn't mention the economic impact. It is almost completely centered around states rights and citizens property rights.

it does in mississippi...
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby ctdeathfrombelow » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:04 pm

clampdaddy wrote:South Carolina was the first state to secede and in December of 1860 they made it pretty clear as to why they chose to do so.

I believe it was the secession of West Virginia that was preverbal straw on the camel's back. They felt their ECONOMIC needs weren't being well represented with in state politics. So after a few assemblies, the delegates agreed to give the decision to congress which said they would only ratify the new state if they agreed to abolish slavery, which they agreed to. In this instance slavery was just a bargaining chip, not the cause.
Not to mention the Civil War was brewing before Lincoln's presidency, specifically the encroachment of the South Carolina militia on Fort Sumter. Because of president Buchanan's demilitarization of the fort, Lincoln was burdened with sending an expeditionary force to the fort. (The DHC liberals should find this easy to understand as they are used to blaming former Presidents for current problems.....)
User avatar
ctdeathfrombelow
hunter
 
Posts: 1523
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm
Location: Connecticut: The Confiscation State

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:07 pm

Keep in mind that the slave trade was global at that time period.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:30 pm

Indaswamp wrote:Keep in mind that the slave trade was global at that time period.

Not really. England had abolished it quite a few years prior and the crown had had quite a long reach. Besides, since when do we get in line to follow along with what the rest of the world is doing?
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:34 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Keep in mind that the slave trade was global at that time period.

Not really. England had abolished it quite a few years prior and the crown had had quite a long reach.

It was still active in muslim countries and africa where the american slaves originated from.
Besides, since when do we get in line to follow along with what the rest of the world is doing?

That is a tangent topic worthy of discussion...
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby assateague » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:38 pm

I find it ironic to say that it was about slavery, when slavery existed in the north. Nor did the Emancipation Proclamation free ALL slaves- it only applied to slaves in the South, not slaves in the North. There were more than a couple Northern states where slavery was perfectly ok until AFTER the civil war, when it became law that slaves were free.

So please, tell me how it was about slavery, when that "peculiar institution" existed in the North as well?

It was about states getting fed up with an overreaching federal government telling them what they could do. History. Read it.
WOLVERINES

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Let a man vote to give himself a fish and he eats until society collapses.
User avatar
assateague
Emu hunter extraordinaire
 
Posts: 21277
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:25 pm
Location: Eastern Shore, People's Republic of Maryland

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:45 pm

Image
Give a man a duck... Feed him for a day... Teach him to fowl hunt... Feed him for a lifetime...Teach him in your spot... Learn to hunt a different spot....
User avatar
wanapasaki
hunter
 
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:47 pm

assateague wrote:I find it ironic to say that it was about slavery, when slavery existed in the north. Nor did the Emancipation Proclamation free ALL slaves- it only applied to slaves in the South, not slaves in the North. There were more than a couple Northern states where slavery was perfectly ok until AFTER the civil war, when it became law that slaves were free.

So please, tell me how it was about slavery, when that "peculiar institution" existed in the North as well?

It was about states getting fed up with an overreaching federal government telling them what they could do. History. Read it.

Thank you Assateague.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Never fart in your waders, it'll give you WORTS.
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 58056
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby TomKat » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:57 pm

Image
User avatar
TomKat
Dorothy
 
Posts: 11497
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:18 am
Location: NE Kansas

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:01 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
blackduckdog2 wrote:It started over slavery........ the cover for getting the shooting match going was money. Southern apologists like the idea that it didn't start over slavery, because that's the issue where the south is most clearly culpable. But it doesn't wash

sigh....not worth my time to even explain, we've cover this topic before.

Yeah...........but I didn't buy it then either Inda. This is one of the greatest myths that the south would like to promote. It's really fairly preposterous. Slavery was BY FAR the social engine for that fiasco, and nit-picking the minutae for lesser motivations is never gonna wash. I know it sells in the south, but the country knows what happened

It was ECONOMIC! slavery was secondary to this fact.

The issue of slavery was EVERYWHERE, Inda....it was in the frigging air, in the water. I'm not saying there were not other factors; of course there were. But the overarching emotional driver (you think that doesn't matter when folks go to kill and die?) was the issue of slavery
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
User avatar
blackduckdog2
hunter
 
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:02 am

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:04 pm

I know someone laughed about my post, even if no one acknowledged it :biggrin:
Give a man a duck... Feed him for a day... Teach him to fowl hunt... Feed him for a lifetime...Teach him in your spot... Learn to hunt a different spot....
User avatar
wanapasaki
hunter
 
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:18 pm

wanapasaki wrote:I know someone laughed about my post, even if no one acknowledged it :biggrin:

:yes:
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby clampdaddy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:20 pm

assateague wrote:I find it ironic to say that it was about slavery, when slavery existed in the north. Nor did the Emancipation Proclamation free ALL slaves- it only applied to slaves in the South, not slaves in the North. There were more than a couple Northern states where slavery was perfectly ok until AFTER the civil war, when it became law that slaves were free......

Very good point.
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3649
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:30 pm

wanapasaki wrote:I know someone laughed about my post, even if no one acknowledged it :biggrin:

I didn't see it but now I'm laughing :lol3:
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
User avatar
blackduckdog2
hunter
 
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:02 am

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby wanapasaki » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:31 pm

LOL!
Give a man a duck... Feed him for a day... Teach him to fowl hunt... Feed him for a lifetime...Teach him in your spot... Learn to hunt a different spot....
User avatar
wanapasaki
hunter
 
Posts: 2503
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Tehachapi, CA

Re: Who flies this flag?

Postby blackduckdog2 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:32 pm

clampdaddy wrote:
assateague wrote:I find it ironic to say that it was about slavery, when slavery existed in the north. Nor did the Emancipation Proclamation free ALL slaves- it only applied to slaves in the South, not slaves in the North. There were more than a couple Northern states where slavery was perfectly ok until AFTER the civil war, when it became law that slaves were free......

Very good point.

Really? That doesn't seem like much of a point at all to me. A whole lot of abolitionists in the southland, were there? For chrissakes, it was the defining issue of the day, year, decade, century.......this is delusional
"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Walt Kelly, via Slow's avatar. Look it up
User avatar
blackduckdog2
hunter
 
Posts: 6290
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:02 am

PreviousNext

Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SpinnerMan and 6 guests