Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:36 pm

Anybody specifically hunt rabbits with their draht? Do they point them or just flush them?


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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mojo » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:24 am

I know some guys who specifically target snow shoe hare after bird season closes up. They have trained their DDs to point them.

I usually run into some snowshoe hare while grouse hunting and my dog is about 75% chase (scent loud), 25% point. I have never trained steadiness for rabbit/hare but I don't think it would be all that difficult to steady him up.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Thanks mojo! I think that next to running beagles for bunnies, a pointer would be the best! Plus it could be great training for steadiness and pointing


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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby ohio mike » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm

So if somebody buys and imports a DD dog and Registers it with NAVHDA then enbarks on a quality breeding and testing program that results in several NAVHDA VC titled German Wirehair Pointers then what? Does this make for a inferior line of dogs because they were tested to a different but still stringent standard? I understand the pride that goes with being owned by a DD. I don't understand why a dog registered as a GWP needs to be denigrated. NAVHDA titles are not a piece of cake they just go in a different direction from the German testing with the emphasis on feather. As a matter of fact I'm sure their are a lot of DD's that couldn't title as a VC under NAVHDA rules. In reality a QUALITY bred GWP and a DD are virtually the same genetically and could compete across testing lines if allowed. Just as there Wirehairs and DD's that prefer to stay on the porch.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:53 am

Mike, there are many good GWP programs like that going on now. Difference is, someone can buy breed a GWP with no cost, no ability, and terrible disposition, get a bunch of crappy pups, and sell them as GWP's. There is NO control. That's the difference, a DD has to pass a standard before they are bred. Your chances are just better with a DD.

Nobody (I don't think) is saying you can't get just as good a GWP as a DD. Your chances just aren't quite as good.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mojo » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:25 am

ohio mike wrote:So if somebody buys and imports a DD dog and Registers it with NAVHDA then enbarks on a quality breeding and testing program that results in several NAVHDA VC titled German Wirehair Pointers then what?
Then you'll have some great hunting dogs. There's a few organizations that do exactly what you're describing (http://www.wirehairalliance.com/).

Does this make for a inferior line of dogs because they were tested to a different but still stringent standard?
No
I understand the pride that goes with being owned by a DD. I don't understand why a dog registered as a GWP needs to be denigrated.
I don't think anyone was denigrating it. All my responses were merely to explain the difference with the VDD program vs. others, and Gonehuntin's response is spot on in highlighting that difference.

NAVHDA titles are not a piece of cake they just go in a different direction from the German testing with the emphasis on feather. As a matter of fact I'm sure their are a lot of DD's that couldn't title as a VC under NAVHDA rules. In reality a QUALITY bred GWP and a DD are virtually the same genetically and could compete across testing lines if allowed. Just as there Wirehairs and DD's that prefer to stay on the porch.


My breeder rungs his dogs in NAHVA and VDD. I train with a DK breeder who also runs and judges in NAHVDA. I don't think anyone is debating the merits of the NAHVDA program.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby ohio mike » Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:52 pm

Gonehunting and Mojo excellent replies! What I was trying to bring to folks attention was that there is another whole venue to get a genetically identical dog of equal talent. The research has to be done and it won't be any cheaper. The Wirehair Alliance is a excellent example. All dogs titled with NAVHDA are well worth a look, as are field titled AKC dogs. Tunnel vision is not necessarilly a good thing.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby gonehuntin' » Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:05 am

NAVHDA is an excellent program, more suited to my needs than the German system. I tested mine in NAVHDA because I didn't want to mess around teaching her to track fur.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mutthunt » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:10 am

Digging up an old thread here...but what dog did you get?!? :beer:
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