Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:08 pm

Deuce22 wrote:What did he say was left to be desired? Mine is curled up in a ball on the couch right now. Likes kids, and loves attention. Part of it has to do with socialization.

He's had an incident or six with the family kitty...
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:10 pm

BobM wrote:I don't think we will ever find the "perfect" dog for all types of shooting, but for me and my shooting I found it in a Springer.
I usually hunt Kansas at least once each season for pheasant and quail, lots of doves at home, but live for waterfowl. My old Chessie was getting along in years and I started looking for a replacement and after much searching, researching, and calling I chose a field bred Springer. I have not been unhappy!
I have no experience with DDs, though I gave them a hard look in my search. I have hunted with several Labs but never owned one. Again a Springer fits MY hunting style. Gus, now coming 4, will retrieve anything I direct him to, is quiet in the blind and very biddable. He has a fantastic nose, and great desire to hunt. We don't get the weather here in SW Arkansas that some states do, but he has broke shoreline ice many, many times and never slowed down a bit. I do use a vest on him when it gets really cold.
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Kansas, at 10mos, finding, flushing, and retrieving.
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As a two year old with an early season mixed bag.
He is my man! If you should think of a Springer I would strongly suggest you check out Bluerivergundogs.com
Ken Hanson produces some fine stock and is a straight forward man to deal with.


Bob

Thanks! That looks just like my dad's Jessie!
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:14 pm

mojo wrote:A DD will sick quietly in a blind. For a dog, it's a question of obedience training vs. breed.

A DD should do as well in cold as most labs. Mine has no issues (Northern New England, December/January conditions, ocean and larger bays).

A DD will bust through the nastiest of cover.

Drive is insane....

A DD can make an excellent family pet with proper conditioning.....my wife absolutely loves our dog. He's a total goofball, huge personality, loyal and affectionate as all heck (they do tend to be indifferent towards strangers...keep that in mind when looking at other peoples' dogs), and loves being part of the family.

If you're talking ruffed grouse, I couldn't imagine hunting them without a pointer, so that right there leads me away from a lab or springer.

I agree about the pointer for grouse.... Unfortunately there's nowhere near enough grouse around. If there were more I would get two dogs, one for ducks and geese and one for grouse and pheasants
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby FFT » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:57 pm

The real question is why wouldnt you get a DD? There are so many reasons for any hunter to want one.

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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby TrapperRob » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:52 pm

Minneguy wrote:
Deuce22 wrote:What did he say was left to be desired? Mine is curled up in a ball on the couch right now. Likes kids, and loves attention. Part of it has to do with socialization.

He's had an incident or six with the family kitty...


I've been doing research on DD lately, I plan on having one as my next dog. I have found that most of their websites state that you shouldn't have them around cats.
I went into the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby OmegaRed » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:11 am

TrapperRob wrote:
Minneguy wrote:
Deuce22 wrote:What did he say was left to be desired? Mine is curled up in a ball on the couch right now. Likes kids, and loves attention. Part of it has to do with socialization.

He's had an incident or six with the family kitty...


I've been doing research on DD lately, I plan on having one as my next dog. I have found that most of their websites state that you shouldn't have them around cats.


I thought this was a load of BS before I got my girl. I have tried to stop her from being so intensely focused on the cat from day 1, knowing that "they have a problem with cats".

My experience: don't have them around cats that you care about. She is starting to get better, but at this point (she's 6 months) I would never trust her around a cat without the ability to pull her off. She still points the cat, intensely stares at the cat if I'm holding her and the cat walks by, and will chase the cat should it ever run. Prey drive is pretty intense, and have come to terms with the fact that if she ever escapes from her kennel and finds the cat, it will be Kate 1 Cat 0
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mojo » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:53 am

Minneguy wrote:I agree about the pointer for grouse.... Unfortunately there's nowhere near enough grouse around. If there were more I would get two dogs, one for ducks and geese and one for grouse and pheasants


The entire purpose of the DD is so that you can hunt all the above with one dog...and hunt them well. I hunt duck,goose,pheasant,grouse, woodcock, and snow shoe hare. I didn't want two dogs either...so I got a draht.

I realize that you won't be doing as much upland as waterfowl, but as mentioned earlier...go and watch a DD on a duck search and it should change your perspective on them as a duck dog. It was quite a treat watching my young pup track a live duck on water...you can read all about it, but it's entirely different to see it. No hand signals, no whistles, and honestly not much training....the dogs are like homing missiles.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mojo » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:00 am

Minneguy wrote:
Deuce22 wrote:What did he say was left to be desired? Mine is curled up in a ball on the couch right now. Likes kids, and loves attention. Part of it has to do with socialization.

He's had an incident or six with the family kitty...


Some people can train them to leave the cats alone....I think the dog would need to be exposed to cats regularly as a young pup to get those results. I can also see where the drive of a particular dog might just be too much.

I don't own cats but am pretty sure what the results would be if he were to encounter one in the field though.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby FFT » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:37 am

Here is scout, he is steady in the blind, and even steadier under the blind!
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Mine is a straight up Killer...

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The cat/Draht thing was a major concern. Rarely is a macho, hunting guy a Cat Man. I married into him. Tried to get rid of him. Turned out to be the most kick azz cat I've ever been around. He is the perfect Intro to Dog cat. He has just enough scrap and fight, but really reads the dogs demeanor to turn it off and allow them in close. My Draht pup is just 8 months old and a male. He bathes the cat.

I am not going to say this will last forever. But right now, I have 0 worries with this pair

As a single guy, my Austrailian Cattle Dog was my sole companion. I encouraged him to chase cats. I'd hold the door just cracked open and let the dog see the cat and work him up before opening the door. Even he has been rehabbed to a degree. You can see he is always attentive to where the cat is, but he is tolerant and doesn't mouth the cat.....much

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I enjoy the semi Elite-ism of being a Draht owner. So I never push them. Probably the right answer. As are Pudels and Griffs I'd think.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby mojo » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:58 pm

As are Pudels and Griffs I'd think.


The Pudelpointer was my other breed choice before I ended up with my DD....griffs are great dogs too. Ultimately I went with the DD based on the breeder, pairing, and timing of litter. Really most of the versatile breeds can fulfill most hunter's demands. IMO the major factor is the breeding system. The JGHV or NAHVDA systems can and do produce equally great dogs.

I'm not trying to push the DD due to any real sense of elitism...I just think they are great dogs, and I know when I was making my decision I really valued talking to other owners vs. what you read in magazines, or some story from a friend of a friend, etc.

There is a lot of hyperbole and hearsay out there about the breed and it can be hard to weed through. They are great dogs but may not be for everyone. For the average hunter who can commit the time, has the energy, and wants to hunt a mix of game, I don't think you can go wrong though.

As someone who was doing the "pick a breed" game a few years ago, I definitely understand the questions and like to help when I can. I can only really speak from my experiences, and my dog...and all around I couldn't be happier with my choice.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby OmegaRed » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:03 pm

mojo wrote:
As are Pudels and Griffs I'd think.


The Pudelpointer was my other breed choice before I ended up with my DD....griffs are great dogs too. Ultimately I went with the DD based on the breeder, pairing, and timing of litter. Really most of the versatile breeds can fulfill most hunter's demands. IMO the major factor is the breeding system. The JGHV or NAHVDA systems can and do produce equally great dogs.

I'm not trying to push the DD due to any real sense of elitism...I just think they are great dogs, and I know when I was making my decision I really valued talking to other owners vs. what you read in magazines, or some story from a friend of a friend, etc.

There is a lot of hyperbole and hearsay out there about the breed and it can be hard to weed through. They are great dogs but may not be for everyone. For the average hunter who can commit the time, has the energy, and wants to hunt a mix of game, I don't think you can go wrong though.

As someone who was doing the "pick a breed" game a few years ago, I definitely understand the questions and like to help when I can. I can only really speak from my experiences, and my dog...and all around I couldn't be happier with my choice.


And I appreciate the advice / experience that you offered me!
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:40 pm

I think DDs and breeders are easier to find than Pudels and Griffs put together but I could be off
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Griffdom » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:13 pm

Jesse Jaymes wrote:I think DDs and breeders are easier to find than Pudels and Griffs put together but I could be off


I tend to agree on the Griff front. You have to sort through a lot of breeders that breed for show and aren't hunters. When you find a good one you generally will get a high quality hunting dog. As far as the Pudelpointers go, there may be many fewer of them (than say DD breeders) but I'd say you are very likely to get a high quality hunting dog from almost any PP breeder. And most of the ship too. The place I'd start if I were looking at them, and I did look at them (they were my first choice for a while before I chose the Griffon), would be with the breeders who are a part of the North American PudelPointer Association (NAPPA). They also have breeding regulations. In order to be a part of their breeders group you have to agree to only breed dogs who pass certain NAVHDA tests at a certain level. I can't say I won't own one in the future. If I choose to try another breed out at some point in the future, it will likely be a PP.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby ohio mike » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:02 pm

Check Ripsnorter Kennels, They specialize in Pudelpointers and wirehairs.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby gonehuntin' » Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:15 am

DRAHT PORN



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They are truly a versatile dog. Don't worry about a point in the cat tails; use ab Astro, not a bell or beeper.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Duckdon » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:02 pm

Minneguy wrote:Hey all! I am new here, I have been reading all about a few varieties of dog that I am interested in and I need help deciding. I have been researching for over a year, and have narrowed my selection down to he following, Deutsch Drathaar, lab, or a English springer spaniel. I have always hunted over and with labs, minus a Gsp and an English setter. I do all kinds of hunting, including ducks, pheasants (wild and farm), grouse, and doves. I also do a ton of deer, bear, rabbit, squirrel, turkey and predator hunting. I have come to the conclusion that I only want to add one more dog to my family, as I already have an amazing Australian shepherd. I am looking for a dog that will sit quietly in the duck blind, bust brush for pheasants and help me find grouse. I have been told to get a DD but I have concerns about their ability to break ices late season, as well as their ability to sit still for a period of time in the duck blind. My other concern with a DD is that they are pointers. Some of my pheasant hunts happen in tall standing corn and I feel it would be a disservice to a pointer to hunt in such cover. Now as far as labs, I have never hunted for grouse with one but I hear it can be done, just not the best. Their less than stellar health makes me nervous as my last lab died suddenly at 6 and broke my heart. She was my girl and when she died I swore I couldn't have another yellow lab. As far as sprinters, I have heard and seen good things with peasants, but my dad has one that won't touch a duck to save her life. Is this common? She is pretty good for grouse, and will find any dove you can hit. My dilemma is that none of these breeds is going to be the best choice for at least one of my hunting scenarios. Does anyone have any advice or insight? I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post.


A whole lot about what your asking and your concerns are as much related to training as breeding. I am a DD guy and for any of their short comings my mutts are great dogs. We hunt everything from Phesants in N Dakota to woodcock in Minnesota. Willow ptarmigan in cover so thick you can't push through. Geese and ducks on the grain fields of Montana or the swift water rivers of Alaska. Couple that with blood tracking bears and other assorted game, I love the breed. Not that other breeds can't do it, the Drahthaar is my dog. Remember that with any V dog breed there is a compromise. DD's can and will do it all and will do it all day long, day after day. As far as a family dog, they are great. I just returned from the Oberlaender in Minnesota and saw a few different breeds in compatition on the same fields, doing the same tasks. It was interesting to watch the different breeds, and even dogs within the same breed. It's amazing how much difference can be displayed among a group of really fine dogs.
My suggestion is to look for a quality breeder that has a track record of producing quality "do it all" dogs. Don't get in a hurry to grab the first pup you see. Do your research and it will pay off big on the other end.

You might swing over to Versatiledog.com and check out that forum. More v-dog stuff on that site.

Jesse, sorry to hear your having problems with your little guy. I trust things will come right with you and your pup.

Don
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:40 am

Gone huntin, that is an awesome set of pics! I also really like the fact that Drahts can help track adeer if the conditions are bad. I need to hunt with more Drahts to see, but they are really starting to have a place in my heart.


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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:42 am

My other concern, is how do Drahts do when hunting multiple dogs??


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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby ohio mike » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:55 am

Minneguy wrote:My other concern, is how do Drahts do when hunting multiple dogs??


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Very well in my experience. They just do their own thing but will honor if taught to do so.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:29 pm

ohio mike wrote:
Minneguy wrote:My other concern, is how do Drahts do when hunting multiple dogs??


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Very well in my experience. They just do their own thing but will honor if taught to do so.


Yes, they're very independent and in my experience, don't give a hoot what the other dog's are doing.

In Germany they test them on deer (I may not have this exactly right). The dog wears about a 12" leash and is released on a blood trail. The dog follows the trail to the deer then returns to the hunter, lead in mouth, presents it to the hunter, and takes him back to the deer. Someting like that anyhow.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby gonehuntin' » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:36 pm

As a side note, in that picture with her in the boat blind, wearing the neoprene vest and watching for ducks, she was about 18 months. If you look closely you can see ice just starting to form on the water (mississippi river near Winona). We shot a mallard and it fell in the dekes crippled. I sent the dog and she swam all the way across to the far shore you can see where she caught the cripple and brought it back. First crippled duck she ever retrieved. Knew I had me a dog from that bird on.
Ned Sorley in the Twin Cities breeds Draht from her bloodline. She is a VomOrion dog from Idaho.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Deuce22 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:40 pm

Minneguy wrote:My other concern, is how do Drahts do when hunting multiple dogs??


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Mine ignores other dogs when hunting unless she seems them on point. She back's naturally. Pretty neat to see a 10m/o pup back another dog with no training. I tell her to hunt and she hunts, pretty simple. A good breeder (which you're surrounded by) and training go a long way. Hunt over some if you can, and if you're willing to wait go see some NAVHDA and VDD tests this spring. It'll show you what you want.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby brad0861 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:13 pm

I have a springer I use. I love hunting with him because watching him hunt is a blast, especially upland. He has retrieved ducks, pheasant, quail and geese. I do have to be more careful in the ice and cold weather as I think the little guy would literally hunt himself to death and labs are a little better in the cold. I just use a vest on him and ensure to keep some burlap to cover him with on those freezing days. I will probably go with a lab or chessie for my next dog given that I hunt many freezing days and most of my hunting is ducks and geese. If I did upland more I would go with a good field bred springer. My favorite thing about him is he is small and easy to pick up and get into the truck or boat. I have had labs that will nearly sink a boat trying to get in from the water.
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Re: Dilemma regarding DD lab and springer

Postby Minneguy » Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:24 pm

Anybody use their draht on grouse??
I am in the process of meeting with a breeder soon to discuss with him what he thinks. I want to see what he has to say about whether I would be a good fit for a draht, because as important as me choosing the right puppy from a litter is, I have to be sure that it's based off fit and not desire.


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