New - Federal Crimping Problems

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New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Howdy all,
New to the forum and new to shotshell reloading. I'm having problems with crimps on my 3" Federal cases.

I loaded 1 1/8 oz #4 shot with 33 grs of Longshot. Used 12SO Wads. I did not have the correct powder bushing so I just hand measured each load with my digital scale.

Most of the shells looked like they were not full. Some good crimps, maybe 1/3 the rest had some sort of issue.

While hunting in ND for pheasant this last week and had two "pop no kick" rounds which resulted in stuck wads. I also had a few which seemed like they did not have a full charge.

Some did not want to chamber in my auto (Franchi Affinity) and some were tight in my O/U (Stevens).

Any ideas/comments on what I did wrong. Is it simply the Federals are harder to reload.

Would poor crimping produce incorrect pressures causing some of these poor loads? Obviously the shell length was an issue in those not wanting to chamber.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BBK » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:04 pm

edited
Last edited by BBK on Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:21 pm

Sorry about that.
Data was taken from Lyman 5th Edition Shotshell Reloading Book (page 124).

Lead shot
Federal Plastic Case 3"
1 3/8 oz
Powder: Longshot
Charge: 33.0
Primer: Federal 209A
Wad: Federal 12SO
Velocity: 1346 fps
Pressure: 8200
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BBK » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:25 pm

No spacers? there is no way 1 3/8 of lead is fitting in a fed 3" hull above 33gr longshot and crimping properly with a 12SO. Try a 1/8 felt spacer in the wad under the shot.

I'd have to say too much room and your load never compacted properly causing the bloopers.

Any pictures of the hull/crimps?
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:35 pm

No spacers. That's why I selected the load. I didn't what to deal with it since when ordering the components I was running into back order problems.

The crazy thing is I shot about 5 of them to see how they patterned and those cycled and patterned very well! Of course I wasn't shooting the ones that looked like poop.

Do I need photo bucket to post pictures on here?
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BBK » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:46 pm

Click "post reply" and then at the bottom you will see a blueish gray tab to upload attachments.

I'm gong to guess you shot the first few loads in warm weather, then when hunting it was quite a bit cooler? Cold weather means slower burns, if you don't have everything compacted you get bloopers.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:06 am

Bad crimps. Some were worse.

photo (7).JPG
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:10 am

These were some of the better ones.

photo (8).JPG
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BBK » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:28 am

Yup, too much space. You need a spacer. :beer:

Your final crimp should be the depth of a dime, not pointing down, and no hole in the center.

If you don't want to order, you can go to a craft store and buy some 1/8" felt sheets and cut your own. They don't have to be perfect.

Also with a pressure that low you can add 1 grain more of powder. That will help a little bit with the bloopers.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BT Justice » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:47 am

killswith300wsm wrote:Sorry about that.
Data was taken from Lyman 5th Edition Shotshell Reloading Book (page 124).

Lead shot
Federal Plastic Case 3"
1 3/8 oz
Powder: Longshot
Charge: 33.0
Primer: Federal 209A
Wad: Federal 12SO
Velocity: 1346 fps
Pressure: 8200

Constructive criticism for what it's worth...
Your new to reloading and you chose the wrong component's for the load you wanted, happens to everyone
I'm assuming those are plastic basewad hulls and not the paper basewad, the difference is a lot especially when your using fine powders like Longshot..you will fall short crimp wise as you have seen.
For most 3" 1 3/8 oz loads you need a bulky powder, best choices are Blue Dot or IMR SR 4756, they take up a lot of room in the hull to start with. Your using the Federal 12SO wad which is basically a target wad to make up for the room left in the hull, with a bulkier powder you might be able to use the 12S3 or 12S4 wad which are better for hunting purposes than target wads.
Finally as was stated your pressures are way to low in the chosen load, if you go to use that one in cold weather you might have more problems than it's worth, although Longshot works fairly well in cold weather.
There are several better choices out there for a 1 3/8 oz 3" load
Here's an example of an older load Lyman had in their manual for years, it's good to sub zero temperatures and will do in pheasants very well. I've used this one for around 20 years now.
Federal 3" Paper Basewad hull
CCI209 primer
41 grains IMR 4756
Remington R12H wad
1 3/8 oz lead shot
1405 fps @ 9350 LUP
If you have the paper basewad hulls or can get them this load won't let you down...NO SPACERS REQUIRED... :lol3:
'
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby 3200 man » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:45 am

Also , you seemed to have jumped to the back of the book to find your load of choice ? These fellas are offering good
advise from experience but , they have started in the front of the book to gain theirs so , take your time to learn how
to reload your ammo (right) by starting in the front of the book reading all you have to know , before you load your ammo !
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby dakotashooter2 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:18 am

Just another thought........How is your wad pressure? Is its possible you may be putting too much pressure on the wads and colapsing them because the loader isn't set up right?

If things don't fit a given recipe generally a component is wrong or the wad isn't seated correctly............
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:54 pm

Thanks gents. But I'm still a bit confused.

1. How can they be the wrong components when I followed the recipe to the T? Do you mean I chose the wrong load for my indented purpose?

2. The wad pressure being too high does make sense to me. Crushing the wad = excess room in the hull. Got it. Thank you.

I chose that load because I had to build with the components I could get. The only primers I could find were Federals. So that was my first limiting factor. This resulted in pretty much limiting me to Federal hulls. I was able to get some Blue Dot but finding a load using Blue Dot, Federal primers, Federal hulls and a wad NOT on back order did not end in success. Thus I had to find an alternate. Longshot with 12SO wads were my only option. To get the Longshot I had to drive 100 miles one way. (Well my wife did. We live in BFE and she had a Dr's appointment and was kind enough to grab some for me.)

So this was not my first choice in loads. But in all honesty, the only things I know to look for in a load are velocity and available components. Maybe after that you ensure it patterns well. And these patterned very well. Here are some pictures of how they patterned.
Modified Choke #4 30 yards.jpg


Full Choke #4 30 yards.jpg


Full Choke #4 40 yards.jpg


Again thank you for your help and comments. I enjoy this forum and hope to be able to contribute some day.

All that said, anyone want to point me in the right direction for steel duck loads? I like 3" 12 gauge #2 shot and have Steel powder and Federal primers! :help:
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BT Justice » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:25 pm

killswith300wsm wrote:Thanks gents. But I'm still a bit confused.

1. How can they be the wrong components when I followed the recipe to the T? Do you mean I chose the wrong load for my indented purpose?


I chose that load because I had to build with the components I could get. The only primers I could find were Federals. So that was my first limiting factor. This resulted in pretty much limiting me to Federal hulls. I was able to get some Blue Dot but finding a load using Blue Dot, Federal primers, Federal hulls and a wad NOT on back order did not end in success. Thus I had to find an alternate. Longshot with 12SO wads were my only option. To get the Longshot I had to drive 100 miles one way. (Well my wife did. We live in BFE and she had a Dr's appointment and was kind enough to grab some for me.)

So this was not my first choice in loads. But in all honesty, the only things I know to look for in a load are velocity and available components. Maybe after that you ensure it patterns well. And these patterned very well. Here are some pictures of how they patterned.


All that said, anyone want to point me in the right direction for steel duck loads? I like 3" 12 gauge #2 shot and have Steel powder and Federal primers! :help:

You followed the load recipe to a T,,but do the loads look correct to you?
One thing you will have to understand is just because a load is published in a reloading manual does not mean it's going to work or fit right in the hull.
You'll find this out with experience, and a bit of cussing when you have high hopes on load and it won't even fit in hull or crimp right. As I stated Longshot is a fine ball type powder an does not take as much room up in a hull as other powders such as Blue Dot which is a flake type powder. This may not seem like it makes much difference but 33 grains of Longshot will take up much less space than 33 grains of Blue Dot, and in making certain loads(such as 1 1/2oz loads in a 2 3/4" hull) Blue Dot will sometimes take up to much room in a hull and you have to find a powder which occupies less space to make the load fit and give you close to the same performance your looking for.
By me stating that you chose the wrong components, what I meant was if you had enough experience with reloading you would have know that Longshot would not have been the correct choice for that 1 3/8 oz load. In comparison, if you take a look at the Hodgdon website you will see that many of the 1 5/8 oz lead loads use the amount of powder you were using for a 1 3/8 oz load, the extra volume of shot makes up the difference space wise and most of the 1 5/8 oz loads crimp up very well.
Hope this helps.......
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:36 pm

It does. Thanks again!
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby 3200 man » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:09 am

Also , you'll find there are many really good loads using Longshot powder in 2 3/4" hulls that will take-out ditch chickens
at some unbelievable distances and ( IF ) steel shot loads are what you're looking for , get a RSI manual for both powders
recipes . Then you'll be on the right tract !
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby wildflights » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm guessing it may be a typo but in your original post you state-
"I loaded 1 1/8 oz #4 shot with 33 grs of Longshot. Used 12SO Wads. I did not have the correct powder bushing so I just hand measured each load with my digital scale."

The recipe posted calls for 1-3/8 oz. Could this be the issue?
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby killswith300wsm » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:03 pm

Yes it was a typo. I loaded 1 3/8. Same as the recipe called for.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby Theduckguru » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:31 pm

With lead and the low pressures listed, use dried beans for cheap spacers. Lima, navy, ect.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:11 am

That's called baiting in my neck of the woods!!!! LOL
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby bassmaster624 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:13 pm

since there are a few fed hulls with different base height do you got the right hull?if your using a fed wad and have other ones try 1 of those.the wad alone doesn't sound right.i have loaded up a lot of fed hulls in lead and cant remembering that.
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby BT Justice » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:47 am

lostknife4 wrote:That's called baiting in my neck of the woods!!!! LOL
Lost

:lol3: Next they'll be suggesting Fruit Loops and Oatmeal.... :lol:
Probably be easier to just use a different load..but what do we know.. :huh:
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Re: New - Federal Crimping Problems

Postby 3200 man » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:18 am

Come-on Joe , you know the lucky bird gets the bean ? :lol3: :lol3: :lol3: ............Bean ! :huh:
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