Amateur FF

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Amateur FF

Postby gsimmons2 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:47 pm

I'm training my first dog and I'm doing well so far but the program I'm following only talks of ff and cc. I was wondering if any of you ff and cc your dogs yourself and how did you go about it. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

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Re: Amateur FF

Postby dogyak » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:04 pm

If you follow the program with CC , you should have no problem . FF is a different story . I highly recommend that you find someone who's done it with a lot of know how . It's the small things they don't show you and how to read the dog . You can really mess up a pup during FF training with a mistake . Just my 2 cents , some dogs are a breeze to FF and then some will give you hell , you could have the one that gives you hell . Find someone , good luck :thumbsup:
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Re: Amateur FF

Postby Duckdon » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:50 am

Sounds like your current program does not go into FF and CC.
If that's the case get a program (DVD and book) that does.
You can go the Pro route but....
Smart Fetch is one such program. Mike Lardy's Total Retriever program has another. Chris Akins does a good job in his Duck Dog Basics DVD's in my opinion.
I have FF a number of dogs and don't see it as a big deal. ( I have never FF'ed a "soft dog" so not sure how that would go) Most important is take your time, don't rush any part of the program and expect it to take as little as a few weeks of mutiple short sessions a day to as many months as it takes to get it done right.
Not sure how you could screw it up if you take your time and follow a program. You do need a soild understanding of "correction timing" and how it related to training a dog. I had a Pro show me this bit of info and in about 30 minutes it made me a 100% better trainer.

FYI: FF and CC are WAY to big a topic to manage with a few helpful comments on some dog forum.
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Re: Amateur FF

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:59 am

gsimmons2 wrote: I was wondering if any of you ff and cc your dogs yourself and how did you go about it.

Went about it objectively, carefully, and educated myself looong before pinching the first ear and pressing the first transmitter button.
One needs to fully understand why you're doing what you're doing.

Believe that's a good "start" to go about it.
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Re: Amateur FF

Postby brsutton86 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:00 am

I used the duck dog basics dvd. I felt like it thoroughly explained both CC and FF. I went through them pretty easily. I did go slow through FF being absolute certain we both were ready for next step. Worked on a hold for a week to get a good foundation starting. I didn't see it as a pro needed thing, but I'm sure some "soft dogs" would be different.
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Re: Amateur FF

Postby FFT » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:23 am

Do yourself a favor and pack a little FF bag with bucks and blocks and stuff. Dont introduce game or wings or bumpers until you feel as if ff is complete. The 1st time you give the dog a hold comand with game it should be after the training is complete. The pros can elaborate on this, i made the mistake of rushing it and had to revisit the basics.
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Re: Amateur FF

Postby go get the bird » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:32 am

swampbilly 1980 wrote:
gsimmons2 wrote: I was wondering if any of you ff and cc your dogs yourself and how did you go about it.

Went about it objectively, carefully, and educated myself looong before pinching the first ear and pressing the first transmitter button.
One needs to fully understand why you're doing what you're doing.
Believe that's a good "start" to go about it.

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Re: Amateur FF

Postby OmegaRed » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:45 am

My input as being someone who just recently spent the last 6 months reading, watching, and re-reading / re-watching everything I could get my hands on. And I am using SmartWorks BTW.

You need to realize that as aforementioned, there are many moving parts and many steps. It's not an A-B, it's an A-Z.

Collar condition teaches the dog what pressure is, and how to respond in order to turn off that pressure. If you were to strap a collar on a dog and shock it, it doesn't know if it stepped in a certain spot and got shocked, if the weather that day shocked it, if it licked it's lips and got shocked. You teach it off of a KNOWN command (usually here because you have a checkcord to make the dog comply and reel it in). Often times when first introduced, dogs will want to bit at the collar or shut down. By reeling them in, you make sure they understand that by complying with the command, they are relieved of pressure.

Force Fetch is the same thing. You are teaching a command, then introducing pressure, and teaching the dog by complying - the pressure is turned off. There are just many more steps in the process with force fetch, and many more things you have to "read" in the dog to make sure the proper amount of force is used, but not too much. Timing as mentioned is imperative.
A general misconception is that once you teach fetch, that the dog knows fetch in different situations. Each situation is a complete new learning process - think of it as a chapter in the book of force fetch. You have to teach from your hand, transitioning from your hand closer to the ground, from the ground, out in front (tossed), in the water, etc. Each one of those steps is a completely different learning scenario. This is a very brief description, but just some pointers that I learned after all my wading through literature. There is no shortcut, the more educated you become on the topic, the better and more confident you'll be in implementing FF.

Hope this helps, you've been suggested some good programs. Spend some time and money learning - it's a small price over the lifetime of your dog. Might as well make it an enjoyable life.
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