Why Incredibly Fast Shells

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:09 pm

kenner wrote:Thanks for putting these numbers out there!

I think we should assume body shooting. Some of y'all are capable of head-shooting,, and some are shooting at point-blank distances, where smaller pellets can be used. BUT,, for people coming to this site, looking for recommended and reliable loads, they need to have loads that will give them a reasonable chance of success, if they can center the target at a given range and use the correct choke.


Fair enough. I get your point.

I get a lot of friends and friends of friends wanting to come out and shoot birds... many of which have never shot much of anything. So in these cases you are absolutely right.

What I set them up with is a mod choke, basic low velocity shells, and pellets a bit bigger than I would normally use. So instead of #4's on close ducks I'll give them #2's or BB... as they;ll probably miss and still have enough "oomf" for that 2nd or 3rd shot that you know is way out of range, and hitting it with the outside of the pattern they'll still get a kill with a one pellet hit.

After that if they;re still into it they;ll make their own choices about what shells they like... most of them make the circuit from funny pellet shapes and expensive chokes till they're happy enough.

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby kenner » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:43 pm

I know it's been interesting, beginning reloading steel, to know what might work for my situation, without having to buy everything....

Thank you All!.... Ken
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:47 am

Image

Ken these charts just don't seem to mean much to me unless the TSS "Benchmark" is included!!! I know Yuchi really likes to see the TSS too!
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:08 am

Just for something interesting I ran some large size TSS. Compare the #2 TSS @1350fps @60 yards with the almost equal number of pellets Steel # T at various speeds and ranges.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:18 am

lostknife4 wrote:Just for something interesting I ran some large size TSS. Compare the #2 TSS @1350fps @60 yards with the almost equal number of pellets Steel # T at various speeds and ranges.
Image


Tungsten F shot? Whats that for ostrich?

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:22 am

Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:02 am

lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:22 am

Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby steelshotshooter » Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:28 am

Are you saying that steel shot shotcups "spin" when they exit the barrel?
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:03 pm

lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:42 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

Mugz.


First of all one of the first things I learned In Engr class Mechanics of Materials was why ejecta spins. Also there was one Nuke Warhead that they checked so it wouldn't spin. This equipment cost $200,000 in the 60's and was made by Trebel in Germany. I worked at the Nuke plant where they did this check. John Phillips (Yuichi) noticed a choke that had burnish marks on it that showed that the ejecta had turned. I had over 62 choke tubes and found only two that had similiar burnish marks. JP's choke burnish marks were 2 3/4" long and moved 1/32" radially (burnish mark turned). The choke dia was .705". I used a Cylinder in my calculatiions. Also I used a speed of 1700 fps thru the choke. This then gives you a 6708 RPM. Also Hastings grooved their barrels to stop ejecta rotation. I still have two of their barrels. Ejecta rotation is nothing to worry about but it does happen and is well documented why it happens. Ned S the young 85 yr old.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:21 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

Mugz.


First of all one of the first things I learned In Engr class Mechanics of Materials was why ejecta spins. Also there was one Nuke Warhead that they checked so it wouldn't spin. This equipment cost $200,000 in the 60's and was made by Trebel in Germany. I worked at the Nuke plant where they did this check. John Phillips (Yuichi) noticed a choke that had burnish marks on it that showed that the ejecta had turned. I had over 62 choke tubes and found only two that had similiar burnish marks. JP's choke burnish marks were 2 3/4" long and moved 1/32" radially (burnish mark turned). The choke dia was .705". I used a Cylinder in my calculatiions. Also I used a speed of 1700 fps thru the choke. This then gives you a 6708 RPM. Also Hastings grooved their barrels to stop ejecta rotation. I still have two of their barrels. Ejecta rotation is nothing to worry about but it does happen and is well documented why it happens. Ned S the young 85 yr old.


Alright so how does all that apply to my shotgun and the wads we're talking about?

6700 rpm is pretty conservative with regards to a rifled bullets rotation, which is in the tens of thousands of rpm depending on twist rate and velocity. Just as a side note.

So really, 6700 rpm in that split fraction of second my own personal "ejecta" :yes: is leaving the muzzle it would rotate maybe one full turn before the wad separates from the shot and does it's own thing... with those numbers Mr. Ned, I would have to say that your theory is plausible, though the effects of this rotation would be negligible as far as bird hunting is concerned.

We still don't have an explanation of what the cause is.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby baltz526 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:34 pm

Wadlock type chokes and barrels do give more consistent patterns. At least with larger shot sizes of steel, the choke I have gives more consistent patterns. Less flyers out side the core pattern. I'll bet there is super high speed film on it somewhere. They sold a lot of the barrels in the past for lead shot.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:40 pm

baltz526 wrote:Wadlock type chokes and barrels do give more consistent patterns. At least with larger shot sizes of steel, the choke I have gives more consistent patterns. Less flyers out side the core pattern. I'll bet there is super high speed film on it somewhere. They sold a lot of the barrels in the past for lead shot.


This is true.. but you can't get as much constriction as with a classic choke. Pros and cons to both.

I'm surprised at how hard it is to come by high speed film of shotgun patterns.

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:45 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

Mugz.


First of all one of the first things I learned In Engr class Mechanics of Materials was why ejecta spins. Also there was one Nuke Warhead that they checked so it wouldn't spin. This equipment cost $200,000 in the 60's and was made by Trebel in Germany. I worked at the Nuke plant where they did this check. John Phillips (Yuichi) noticed a choke that had burnish marks on it that showed that the ejecta had turned. I had over 62 choke tubes and found only two that had similiar burnish marks. JP's choke burnish marks were 2 3/4" long and moved 1/32" radially (burnish mark turned). The choke dia was .705". I used a Cylinder in my calculatiions. Also I used a speed of 1700 fps thru the choke. This then gives you a 6708 RPM. Also Hastings grooved their barrels to stop ejecta rotation. I still have two of their barrels. Ejecta rotation is nothing to worry about but it does happen and is well documented why it happens. Ned S the young 85 yr old.


Alright so how does all that apply to my shotgun and the wads we're talking about?

6700 rpm is pretty conservative with regards to a rifled bullets rotation, which is in the tens of thousands of rpm depending on twist rate and velocity. Just as a side note.

So really, 6700 rpm in that split fraction of second my own personal "ejecta" :yes: is leaving the muzzle it would rotate maybe one full turn before the wad separates from the shot and does it's own thing... with those numbers Mr. Ned, I would have to say that your theory is plausible, though the effects of this rotation would be negligible as far as bird hunting is concerned.

We still don't have an explanation of what the cause is.

Mugz.


it's simple what causes it. Any 2nd year Engineerin student learns why the ejecta can rotate. I just can't understand why the three Engrs (two are registered) can't understand it. Ned S
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:49 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

Mugz.


First of all one of the first things I learned In Engr class Mechanics of Materials was why ejecta spins. Also there was one Nuke Warhead that they checked so it wouldn't spin. This equipment cost $200,000 in the 60's and was made by Trebel in Germany. I worked at the Nuke plant where they did this check. John Phillips (Yuichi) noticed a choke that had burnish marks on it that showed that the ejecta had turned. I had over 62 choke tubes and found only two that had similiar burnish marks. JP's choke burnish marks were 2 3/4" long and moved 1/32" radially (burnish mark turned). The choke dia was .705". I used a Cylinder in my calculatiions. Also I used a speed of 1700 fps thru the choke. This then gives you a 6708 RPM. Also Hastings grooved their barrels to stop ejecta rotation. I still have two of their barrels. Ejecta rotation is nothing to worry about but it does happen and is well documented why it happens. Ned S the young 85 yr old.


Alright so how does all that apply to my shotgun and the wads we're talking about?

6700 rpm is pretty conservative with regards to a rifled bullets rotation, which is in the tens of thousands of rpm depending on twist rate and velocity. Just as a side note.

So really, 6700 rpm in that split fraction of second my own personal "ejecta" :yes: is leaving the muzzle it would rotate maybe one full turn before the wad separates from the shot and does it's own thing... with those numbers Mr. Ned, I would have to say that your theory is plausible, though the effects of this rotation would be negligible as far as bird hunting is concerned.

We still don't have an explanation of what the cause is.

Mugz.


it's simple what causes it. Any 2nd year Engineerin student learns why the ejecta can rorotate. Ned S


.... care to enlighten us?

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby baltz526 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:07 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
baltz526 wrote:Wadlock type chokes and barrels do give more consistent patterns. At least with larger shot sizes of steel, the choke I have gives more consistent patterns. Less flyers out side the core pattern. I'll bet there is super high speed film on it somewhere. They sold a lot of the barrels in the past for lead shot.


This is true.. but you can't get as much constriction as with a classic choke. Pros and cons to both.

I'm surprised at how hard it is to come by high speed film of shotgun patterns.

Mugz.
Its probably as simple as its copy right protected. Pay per view might be needed
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:27 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:Antiaircraft. But the army uses a much bigger tungsten ball in a tank mounted cannon.
Lost


That would have been my second guess. I saw that video Frank posted. Neat stuff. I had access to a high speed camera at my last job... I kept meaning to set up my shotgun and catch my patterns but I never had the time. Would have been an eye-opener I'm sure. Maybe someday I'll get another chance.

Mugz.


No one, including Ned, the propagator of the internal barrel spinning shotcup hypothesis has been able to prove that shotcups spin in the barrel and a video would show that spinning when leaving the muzzle so if possible get a video of yours when departing the muzzle. Ned needs all the help he can get since every other video that I have seen do not indicate that the wad was spinning unless somehow the choke stopped it but Ned said it's rpm is in the thousands.
Lost


If rpm of the wad was in the thousands... so would be the pellets. You ever fire a bird round in a rifled slug gun? The pattern is subjected to rotational forces and pellets go flying outwards at tangent vectors perpendicular to the direction of the shot. End result is all your decoys within 25 feet are dead and the duck at 20 yards never saw a pellet come near him.

there is zero reason a shotcup would spin unless the barrel is rifled. If they did spin so would a slug or round ball fired from smoothbores and we never would have bothered inventing the rifled barrel in the first place.

As soon as the wad hits the air and opens up, it does all kinds of squirrely unpredictable stuff.

I couldn't imagine where anyone would get ideas otherwise. You're gonna have a hard time backing that up Ned.

Maybe... just a very small possibility that certain barrels have scoring left from the machining or honing.. and these marks have yet to be smoothed out over time... maybe then you would see some rotational forces on the wad. Though I highly doubt it.

Mugz.


First of all one of the first things I learned In Engr class Mechanics of Materials was why ejecta spins. Also there was one Nuke Warhead that they checked so it wouldn't spin. This equipment cost $200,000 in the 60's and was made by Trebel in Germany. I worked at the Nuke plant where they did this check. John Phillips (Yuichi) noticed a choke that had burnish marks on it that showed that the ejecta had turned. I had over 62 choke tubes and found only two that had similiar burnish marks. JP's choke burnish marks were 2 3/4" long and moved 1/32" radially (burnish mark turned). The choke dia was .705". I used a Cylinder in my calculatiions. Also I used a speed of 1700 fps thru the choke. This then gives you a 6708 RPM. Also Hastings grooved their barrels to stop ejecta rotation. I still have two of their barrels. Ejecta rotation is nothing to worry about but it does happen and is well documented why it happens. Ned S the young 85 yr old.


Alright so how does all that apply to my shotgun and the wads we're talking about?

6700 rpm is pretty conservative with regards to a rifled bullets rotation, which is in the tens of thousands of rpm depending on twist rate and velocity. Just as a side note.

So really, 6700 rpm in that split fraction of second my own personal "ejecta" :yes: is leaving the muzzle it would rotate maybe one full turn before the wad separates from the shot and does it's own thing... with those numbers Mr. Ned, I would have to say that your theory is plausible, though the effects of this rotation would be negligible as far as bird hunting is concerned.

We still don't have an explanation of what the cause is.

Mugz.


it's simple what causes it. Any 2nd year Engineerin student learns why the ejecta can rorotate. Ned S


.... care to enlighten us?

Mugz.


I'm calling this one bogus. Give us an accredited report or written theory and I'll maybe consider that maybe you know what you're talking about.


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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:36 pm

Hell!, it's writtern in Engr books, also the burnish marks show turning of the ejecta. Of course it could be beyond your comprenension. Ned S
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:Hell!, it's writtern in Engr books, also the burnish marks show turning of the ejecta. Of course it could be beyond your comprenension. Ned S


Book Title and page number, please. I have quite a few of them.


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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:52 pm

Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:Hell!, it's writtern in Engr books, also the burnish marks show turning of the ejecta. Of course it could be beyond your comprenension. Ned S


Book Title and page number, please. I have quite a few of them.


Mugz.


I'm not going to do your work for it. Do like I do, when I do not know the answer to something I do research on it until I find the answer. My College engr books are stored in the attic and I'm not going to unpack them. Ned S
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:13 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:
Mugzwump wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:Hell!, it's writtern in Engr books, also the burnish marks show turning of the ejecta. Of course it could be beyond your comprenension. Ned S


Book Title and page number, please. I have quite a few of them.


Mugz.


I'm not going to do your work for it. Do like I do, when I do not know the answer to something I do research on it until I find the answer. My College engr books are stored in the attic and I'm not going to unpack them. Ned S



Okay pal... Not even a title???

I'll discuss this with the 3 or 4 engineer friends I have over the ice fishing hole on Saturday. I am sure we can come up with a few balls-out theories to work with. I've read that thread Lost started in 2011 about the aerodynamic pellets. I'm surprised you still mention the spinning wad subject on this forum. Props for believing in yourself. I am truly curious, and totally skeptical at the same time.

Mugz.
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:01 pm

No theories to it. Just a plane old Physics (Engineering Fact). Once told you won't understand it anyway. Ned S
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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Mugzwump » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:16 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:No theories to it. Just a plane old Physics (Engineering Fact). Once told you won't understand it anyway. Ned S


Ohhhh!!! You should have said it was plane physics. That makes a lot more sense now... wait... plane like "air-plane" or plane like a two dimensional field??

gimme a break old dude...

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Re: Why Incredibly Fast Shells

Postby Jon Bergren » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:48 pm

No "gimmies" allowed. Ned S
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