The Republican convention

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Do you think John McCain will win?

By a landslide
7
20%
by a narrow margin
22
63%
Loss by narrow margin
6
17%
 
Total votes : 35

The Republican convention

Postby don taylor » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:03 pm

I thought Fred Thompson was excellent and the story he told of McCain's capture and torture was moving. I don't usually get that wrapped up to feel a tug inside, but holy cow has that man been through a lot. What he said about the dems only taxing businesses was one of the greatest lines I've ever heard on the subject. What are you guys getting from this?
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Postby devildog28 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:23 pm

Watched a little bit tonight and seemed like these guys are a lot more mature and less flashy than the fruitcakes and rough looking women of the dems.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:57 am

brit hume actually touched on the subject i think is the most important. that people will SAY they are voting for the black guy, but when they are in that quiet little booth, and no one can see, they wont. its happened before, and it will most likely happen here, too. not many news shows have mentioned it. almost like the gorilla in the room that goes without mention... :no:

i dont know if it will be a landslide, but i doubt its gonna be a close call...
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Postby dudejcb » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:09 pm

thank you John McCain for your service to the country and the suffering you were served up as a POW. Amen.

Can we get past the POW thing, address real issues (like the economy, loss of jobs and Bush's war on the middle class that McSame weems to want to perpetuate) and not make up scary stuff (more taxees, take away your guns, kill babies) designed and spoken almost in unison to herd the gullible masses to the polls.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:00 pm

dudejcb wrote:Bush's war on the middle class that McSame weems to want to perpetuate
Stop listening to Lou Dobbs. He is a moron. There is no war on the middle class unless you think increasing college enrollment, increased two professional incomes, starting families later in life, etc. is a "war" on middle class.

There are only 3 places a person can be based on a upper, middle, and lower class.

If you go to college, especially for an advanced degree, you spend a significantly larger fraction of your adult life in the lower class than you otherwise would. This increases the lower class. You know how all those poor college kids are suffering with the economic hardship of finding enough beer money.

Then after you graduate from college, you are far more likely to move into the upper class. This increase the upper class.

However, if you took a factory job right out of high school. You would be middle class from 18 until you die. Never poor and never rich. Go to college, you will be poor for 4 to 10 years and a good chance you will be upper class before your 40th birthday. This is a large reason for the declining middle class.

Women who go to college make more money than women that do not. They also tend to marry men that also went to college. Damn college reducing the middle class even further.

We also have a very high fraction of the population that receives social security disability and other forms of government support that does not count as "income", live off their parents or other's wealth, or work under the table, and are therefore statistically poor. That is why when they do surveys of the poor, they own big screen TVs, automobiles, satelite dishes, etc. The whole objective of filling out your tax form is to minimize your reported income so you can minimize your taxes. Not a big shock that when you base your statistics on income, it under estimates purchasing power.

The reduction of the middle class is statistical information that does not tell you anything.

I don't dismiss that there are some chronically poor people, but if you can figure out how to get alcoholics and drug addicts to go to work 5 days a week, I'm all ears.

dudejcb wrote:spoken almost in unison to herd the gullible masses to the polls.
Your the gullible one. People own more luxuries than ever in history. Our poor have more junk than the middle class of most countries in the world, including a lot of our beloved European examples. The average American makes about $10k per year more than the average European, but they are the model to live by :thumbsdown:

I'm all for an honest educated debate on any issue. Conservative principles are the ones that work and progressive/liberal/socialist/communist/or whatever you are calling them today are the ones that fail over and over and over again.
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Postby seastreet » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:42 pm

dudejcb wrote:thank you John McCain for your service to the country and the suffering you were served up as a POW. Amen.

Can we get past the POW thing, address real issues (like the economy, loss of jobs and Bush's war on the middle class that McSame weems to want to perpetuate) and not make up scary stuff (more taxees, take away your guns, kill babies) designed and spoken almost in unison to herd the gullible masses to the polls.


Looking for that rolling eyes, self fornication emoticon...
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Postby QUACK3XS » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:51 pm

dudejcb wrote:thank you John McCain for your service to the country and the suffering you were served up as a POW. Amen.

Can we get past the POW thing, address real issues (like the economy, loss of jobs and Bush's war on the middle class that McSame weems to want to perpetuate) and not make up scary stuff (more taxees, take away your guns, kill babies) designed and spoken almost in unison to herd the gullible masses to the polls.


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Postby bluewing77 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:55 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:Women who go to college make more money than women that do not. They also tend to marry men that also went to college. Damn college reducing the middle class even further.
The reduction of the middle class is statistical information that does not tell you anything.


my wife and i both have college degrees (she teaches high-school bio & chem; i'm a nurse) and combined we make ~ $110K/yr. i'm 30, she's 28, we have one child, a very reasonable mortgage, 2 vehicles, my truck is paid for. i dont feel that there is a "war" against me or my family but we still feel very much "Middle Class". what i'm asking is: what would qualify someone as "upper class", SpinnerMan? to me, being upper class would mean not having to worry about things like: retirement, health insurance, mortgage.

i agree with pennsyltucky on the topic of who people SAY they'll vote for and who they REALLY vote for inside the little quiet booth.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:42 pm

bluewing77 wrote:what would qualify someone as "upper class", SpinnerMan? to me, being upper class would mean not having to worry about things like: retirement, health insurance, mortgage.
At $110k, you are in the top 15% of all households. You may "feel" middle class, but nationwide you are upper class. However, more than likely all of your neighbors and most of your friends and associates have very similar household incomes. This is why everybody feels like they are about average, even if they are multimillionaires.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
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Postby Brydog » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:53 am

dudejcb wrote:

Can we get past the POW thing, address real issues (like the economy, loss of jobs and Bush's war on the middle class that McSame weems to want to perpetuate) and not make up scary stuff (more taxees, take away your guns, kill babies) designed and spoken almost in unison to herd the gullible masses to the polls.


Those are typical Republican "How to win the election" tactics.
No surprise here, they've been doing it for years, and will continue to do so until this country goes down in flames.

BTW,
George McCain says anyone that doesn't make $5,000,000 annually, is Middle Class. It no wonder he doesn't know how many homes and Condos he owns. He out of touch with Americas problems, and doesn't even know it ! :crazy2:
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:15 am

Brydog wrote:BTW,
George McCain says anyone that doesn't make $5,000,000 annually, is Middle Class.


thats excellent because it means that i can actually prosper and not be punished for it. obama will cut off my head just for making over 250,000.... that means im not allowed to prosper.

see how your side takes it all out of context? the reason he wants the middle class so high is so we can prosper and strive to be upper-middle class. its actually a smart way to go about it. your biggest problem is that you actually believe that your opponent is stupid or ignorant. you cannot believe that the other side may have a good reasoning or idea. and when its shown that we do, you bash it and belittle it so as not to take away from your own. thats why we have partisanship and get nothing done.
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Postby David » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:19 am

Brydog wrote:BTW,
George McCain says anyone that doesn't make $5,000,000 annually, is Middle Class.


Care to show us where he ever said anything close to this or are you doing what you are always accusing Republican of?

And the being in the Navy and an ex-pow, your right, let's put someone in charge of the worlds strong military with no military background. Someone that thinks you can talk to crazy militant leaders and make them see their way is wrong. :no:
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:23 am

the only reason they dont like to hear his pow story is because it highlights the lacking in their party. i agree that it shouldnt be used as a tool for election in itself, but as proof of character, service, and honor in a candidate, it doesnt get much better :thumbsup: brydog, care to show us something in obama's past that shows character, service, and honor? hmmm??? i didnt notice anyone vouching for his character, service, or honor at his shindig... actually, no one even vouched for him personally that i saw... they just read their lines about how "the republicans suck, and the dems rule...and oh ya...woohoo obama"

also, i think the way they whine and put him down about it will only bolster the republican military vote... so whine away :wink:
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Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:34 am

David wrote:
Brydog wrote:BTW,
George McCain says anyone that doesn't make $5,000,000 annually, is Middle Class.


Care to show us where he ever said anything close to this or are you doing what you are always accusing Republican of?
It was from the long interview Obama and McCain did with the preacher. It was a joke. If you actually listened to the question and answer, he thought the concept of drawing a line was a joke.

The video & transcript are here.
http://trevinwax.com/2008/08/17/obama-mccain-with-rick-warren-at-saddleback-forum-video/

Q NO. NO. ACTUALLY, THIS IS GREAT BECAUSE I MAY ACTUALLY GET TO ASK YOU A COUPLE OF EXTRA QUESTIONS WHICH IS GOOD. THEY ARE THE LIGHTENING BONUS ROUND. ON TAXES, DEFINE RICH. EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TAXING THE RICH AND -- BUT NOT THE POOR, THE MIDDLE CLASS. AT WHAT POINT -- GIVE ME A NUMBER, GIVE ME A SPECIFIC NUMBER WHERE DO YOU MOVE FROM MIDDLE CLASS TO RICH? IS IT 100 THOUSAND, IS IT 50 THOUSAND, 2 HUNDRED? HOW DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STANDARDS ARE?

A SOME OF THE RICHEST PEOPLE I'VE EVER KNOWN IN MY LIFE ARE THE MOST UNHAPPY. I THINK THAT RICH IS – SHOULD BE DEFINED BY A HOME, A GOOD JOB AND EDUCATION AND THE ABILITY TO HAND TO OUR CHILDREN A MORE PROSPEROUS AND SAFER WORLD THAN THE ONE THAT WE INHERITED. I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY MONEY FROM THE RICH. I WANT EVERYBODY TO GET RICH. I DON'T BELIEVE IN CLASS WARFARE OR REDISTRIBUTIONOF THE WEALTH. BUT I CAN TELL YOU FOR EXAMPLE THERE ARE SMALL BUSINESSMEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE WORKING 16 HOURS A DAY, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK THAT SOME PEOPLE WOULD CLASSIFY AS, QUOTE, RICH, MY FRIENDS, WHO WANT TO RAISE THEIR TAXES ANDRAISE THEIR PAYROLL TAXES. LET'S HAVE -- KEEP TAXES LOW.

LET'S GIVE EVERY FAMILY IN AMERICA A 7 THOUSAND DOLLAR TAXCREDIT FOR EVERY CHILD THEY HAVE. LET'S GIVE THEM A 5 THOUSAND DOLLAR REFUNDABLE TAX CREDIT TO GO OUT AND GET THE HEALTH INSURANCE OF THEIR CHOICE. LET'S NOT HAVE THE GOVERNMENT TAKE OVER THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN AMERICA. SO -- SO I THINK IF YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT INCOME, HOW ABOUT FIVE MILLION. SO -- BUT SERIOUSLY, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN -- I DON'T THINK, SERIOUSLY THAT -- THE POINT IS THAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE HERE SERIOUSLY -- AND I'M SURE THAT COMMENT WILL BE DISTORTED, BUT THE POINT IS – THE POINT IS -- THE POINT IS THAT WE WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE'S TAXES LOW AND INCREASE REVENUES. AND MY FRIEND, IT WAS NOT TAXES THAT MATTERED IN AMERICA IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS. IT WAS SPENDING. SPENDING GOT COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL. WE SPENT MONEY IN A WAY THAT MORTGAGED OUR KIDS FUTURES. MY FRIENDS, WE SPENT $3 MILLION OF YOUR MONEY TO STUDY THE DNA OF BEARS IN MONTANA. NOW I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A PATERNITY ISSUE OR A CRIMINAL ISSUE, BUT THE POINT IS -- BUT THE POINT IS IT WAS 3 MILLION OF YOUR MONEY. IT WAS YOUR MONEY. AND YOU KNOW, WE LAUGH ABOUT IT, BUT WE CRY AND WE SHOULD CRY BECAUSE THE CONGRESS IS SUPPOSED TO BE CAREFUL STEWARDS OF YOUR TAX DOLLARS. SO WHAT DID THEY JUST DO IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ENERGY CRISIS WHEN IN CALIFORNIA WE ARE PAYING $4 A GALLON FOR GAS, WENT ON VACATION FOR FIVE WEEKS. I GUARANTEE YOU, TWO THINGS THEY NEVER MISS, A PAY RAISE AND A VACATION. AND WE SHOULD STOP THAT AND CALL THEM BACK AND NOT RAISE YOUR TAXES. WE SHOULD NOT AND CANNOT RAISE TAXES IN TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY WHAT MYDEFINITION OF RICH IS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO RAISE ANYBODY'S TAXES. I REALLY DON'T. IN FACT, I WANT TO GIVE WORKING AMERICANS A BETTER SHOT AT HAVING A BETTER LIFE AND WE ALL KNOW THE CHALLENGES, MY FRIENDS, IF I COULD BE SERIOUS. AMERICANS TONIGHT IN CALIFORNIA AND ALL OVER AMERICA ARE SITTING AT THE KITCHEN TABLE, RECENTLY AND SUDDENLY LOST A JOB, CAN'T AFFORD TO STAY IN THEIR HOME, EDUCATION FOR THEIR KIDS, AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE, THESE ARE TOUGH PROBLEMS. THESE ARE TOUGH PROBLEMS. YOU TALK TO THEM EVERY DAY.
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Postby David » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:47 am

So he is spinning the truth, just like he always accuses the Republicans of doing.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:19 am

exactly what i thought he meant. so without the liberal spin (and ridiculous misquote as usual), he is simply trying to lower tax rates for more people. how is that bad?

and those gaps and the repeating himself were breaks in the speech thanks to applause im sure.
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Postby jrockncash » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:11 am

The funny thing is that some of these guys that hate bush so much have no clue why they do or why they hate McCain.

No one argues "For" the dems. They argue against the good team with antiquated talking points.

Show me where in yer boy Osamas resume shows you that he will do anything to help this country.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:14 am

<crickets>
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Postby Pacific Fisher » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:47 pm

McCain is one of the most out of touch with everyday working folks of any candidate in modern times.

His statement defining rich was,

"If you are just talking about income, how about 5 million dollars"

Not surprising that he does not even know how many houses he owns.
Also not surprising that he did not mention the middle class during the convention. I guess he figures those are the folks making one to four million dollars per year.
Who could think this is the guy that the real middle, working class can count on for real change? Ridiculous.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:58 pm

I provide you the transcript and you still don't get it. Rich is an arbitrary line. There is no magic number where your not rich and then you make a dollar more and suddenly you are rich. The whole idea that we should treat one group of people different than another group of people is not only counter productive but unamerican. We should have a flat tax rate, then we would fight over these arbitrary lines of whose rich and whose not rich. Whatever the tax rate is, we should do our best to make it lower by trying to reduce government spending to as low a level as possible and still maintain law and order and security.
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Postby jrockncash » Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:59 pm

Did you even read the posts above you?


No you didnt and I bet you think McCain is the same as Bush and the war is bad and Obama is Lord Obama most merciful here to deliver us from freedom and to impose taxation derived indentured servancy.

"Obama, yes we can." (Lemmings screaming foggy eyed and dazed)

Biden author of assault weapons ban.
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Postby Pacific Fisher » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:17 pm

Ronald Reagan, supporter of the Brady Bill. :rofl:
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Postby jrockncash » Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:30 pm

Jimmy Carter
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