what to buy for the home

A forum to discuss home defense and personal defense to keep out crime.

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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby Dep6 » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:01 pm

Someone is correct, I was taught to shoot to stop the threat of harm against me and others. I have never been taught to shot to kill.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby MM » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:07 pm

So if you use a shotgun to protect your family and you are worried about killing the person why even shoot? If you hit them in the "vital" area, they are done for. Should you aim for their foot so they can't run away? Hurt them just enough to sue you...?

This is what I would use in my home (if I used a shotgun). http://www.hevishot.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=57

Good Stuff!
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby La. Hunter » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:43 pm

MM wrote:So if you use a shotgun to protect your family and you are worried about killing the person why even shoot? If you hit them in the "vital" area, they are done for. Should you aim for their foot so they can't run away? Hurt them just enough to sue you...?

This is what I would use in my home (if I used a shotgun). http://www.hevishot.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=57

Good Stuff!


MM,

I am not saying that you need to only wound the bad guy. What I am trying to get across to you is that after you shoot the bad guy, no mater what the outcome, the only words out of your mouth should be that you shot to stop the threat. Also, if you shoot him and he begins to retreat, don't "finish him off". At that point, the threat is gone and you became the aggressor.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but in our screwed up judicial system you have to watch your 6. Its hard to imagine that someone could be found guilty of killing someone that broke into their home, but it happens.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby La. Hunter » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:00 pm

Another thing, those of you that think a .45 will drop someone instantly are saddly mistaken. I have seen more gunshot victims than I can recall, but only 2 were dead in their tracks. One was shot point blank with a .380 in the forehead and from the way we found the body he immediately corkscrewed to the ground. The other was shot centermass from about 30 yards with a 30-06 and according to the coroner, was probably dead before he hit the ground. The majority of the gun shot cases I have worked, not including self inflicted, were only injuries and not mortal. These include about every handgun caliber imaginable from a .22 to a .45 and usually included multiple gunshot wounds. By the way, these don't include the home invasion/robbery victims found shot near execution style in their homes, but trying to make head shots when your life may be in danger isn't the wisest decision, unless you have had extensive training under high adrenaline situations.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby MM » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:29 am

La. Hunter wrote:MM,

I am not saying that you need to only wound the bad guy. What I am trying to get across to you is that after you shoot the bad guy, no mater what the outcome, the only words out of your mouth should be that you shot to stop the threat. Also, if you shoot him and he begins to retreat, don't "finish him off". At that point, the threat is gone and you became the aggressor.

I don't necessarily agree with this, but in our screwed up judicial system you have to watch your 6. Its hard to imagine that someone could be found guilty of killing someone that broke into their home, but it happens.


I think you just made my morning! :yes: The "finish him off" part is great! You are right... don't shoot someone in the back, not while they are running away, laying on the ground, etc. I am friends with the states attorney here and was talking to him the others day. He said there would not be charges brought against anyone if you "felt" like your life was in danger. I guess that is the key phrase (at least around here).

I pray to God I am never in that situation! Really don't want to take a life (but will). It will ruin my hardwood floors, walls, carpet, home value (Which I just got done building!). :fingerhead:

Anyway... I am off my soapbox now.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby La. Hunter » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:49 pm

MM wrote:
La. Hunter wrote:

I think you just made my morning! :yes: The "finish him off" part is great! You are right... don't shoot someone in the back, not while they are running away, laying on the ground, etc. I am friends with the states attorney here and was talking to him the others day. He said there would not be charges brought against anyone if you "felt" like your life was in danger. I guess that is the key phrase (at least around here).

I pray to God I am never in that situation! Really don't want to take a life (but will). It will ruin my hardwood floors, walls, carpet, home value (Which I just got done building!). :fingerhead:

Anyway... I am off my soapbox now.


I just saw a video a few days ago where a pharmacy was robbed and the employee pulled a handgun and shot one of the robbers. He then chased the other one out the door and came back in, walked over the guy on the floor that he had shot, went back to the counter and reloaded and shot the guy again. It was hard to tell what the guy on the floor was doing, but I believe they are prosecuting the employee for murder.

Some people get it in their head they are going to kill someone in a situation like that and don't realize they have legally put themselves in a predicament when they continue shooting after the threat is gone.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby MM » Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:28 am

If the guy was laying on the ground and the employee took the time to reload and shoot him again, he deserves to be prosecuted...
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby La. Hunter » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:38 am

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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby MM » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:26 pm

I couldnt agree with them more! He had full right to use deadly force during the robbey (even chasing them out the door). But, shooting him 5 more times after he is down????? That is just WRONG!
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby wackemstackem » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:38 pm

Another wart off the ass of society :thumbsup: good for him.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:22 pm

NO BRAINER - Get a nice pump action shotgun; load it with 00 Buck and forget about it. My mom could hit a perp with that thing and she hates guns. Getting a handgun just complicated the issue, because handguns are not easy to shoot and pretty hard to master. They take a lot of range time mantiance. The pump shot gun is your basic point and shoot with buck shot. Plus how many perps would keep comming after a miss from a 12ga after you hear that slide rack to chamber a new round?

Also shoot to kill!!! If they are stupid enough to break into your home while you are there - they probably want to cause you harm.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby joshco84 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:52 pm

fenton_3 wrote:Also shoot to kill!!! If they are stupid enough to break into your home while you are there - they probably want to cause you harm.


I agree, if someone is in my house without my permission they are there to hurt/kill me. They will be dealt with accordingly.

The issue with shoot to kill came up with talking about the situation after. Never say you shot to kill him, say you shot to neutralize the threat.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby jasper » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:17 pm

I use a 12 gauge with 7 shot. I live in an apt complex and have to make sure to the best of my abilities if I would have a stray round it is not going to hurt a neighbor. I also have one clean shooting lane that leads up the stairs in my house. I was taught to draw a line in the stand. This means find the point at which you consider the threat a danger to your family. You don't want to have to think about it when everything is crazy all around you. Mine is that staircase. One foot on it and I am going to pull that trigger. As to the watching your six this is my plan. First I have a big lab that sleeps in my room with me. He will bark at the sound of the lock turning. I know because I try to sneak in on him and my wife and cant even get the key out of the dead bolt before he is barking. If I believe someone is in my house after being awoken by lab I am having my wife calling 911 and staying up stairs armed. While my wife is on the phone with 911 I am going to yell I am on the phone with the police and I am armed. I will defend myself if you don't leave. If he continues to the stairs I will yell stop or I will shoot. All while on the phone with the 911 operator. In WI you have the right to defend yourself from harm. With doing it this way everything will be recorded by 911 and admissible in court. Now with that said it all could happen to fast for the phone call. I just hope I am never in this situation and if someone does try to break in my lab is on top of his game.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby maxham51 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:45 pm

This is the most pro birdshot I have seen on any forum on self defense. It is a well known fact that birdshot sucks for home defense but it is also known that it well not tend to punch through walls. The deal is any load from a 12 gauge is about the same at 10 feet or less. With birdshot you really don't want to be further then 15 feet. It is very doubtful that a victim hit within 15 feet with birdshot will have any fight left. At 50 feet a victim hit will buck shot will almost always be down for the count while with birdshot they may just be pissed off.

Most experts rate a shotgun in either 12 ga or 20 ga pump with a short barrel as the best home defense. Adding a blinding tactical light and maybe a laser is also a good idea. Generally #1 buck (#2 with a 20 ga) is considered the best load with #4 or BB shot, where there is danger of hitting an innocent through interior walls, is what the experts have told me.

My thinking on pistols for defense is that they are good carry weapons. That is what they are made for. A .38 with spear gold dot is about as small as I would go. If I where to use one for HD I would go for either a .40 s&w or .45 acp and use LE rounds. with a full frame pistol and a tactical light and laser. H&K USP Expert being my first choice although a Springfield XD is more in range of my pocket book. For bear country I would go for the Alaskan .454.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby sherlockbonez » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:41 am

I won't comment on lights and laser or what type of firearm is best for home defense is everyone is different. For example someone who works nights and lives at the edge of town might not need a light and a carbine would work best etc.

I feel that it bears repeating that a pistol round (especially solids) will have substantial penetration vs buckshots which are 1)not aerodynamic 2)coming at a slower speed.

Also, no swatting cripples ...unless you like to investigate the prison system on a first hand basis.
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Re: what to buy for the home

Postby buckshot312000 » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:47 pm

00 buck will penetrate further into ballistic gel than say a. 40. It will also penetrate a level IIIA balistic vest but a pistol round will not....may wanna check ur facts..I have seen this first hand
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