puppy / breeder question

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puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:25 am

Howdy-

Would you guys / gals in the know be willing to take a quick look at this breeding: http://www.elitelabradorretrievers.com/ ... ruz-x-koda

and let me know your thoughts about the pups, pedigrees, health clearances, feeling about the breeder in general from what you can tell from the website, etc?
I've never heard of this breeder. Just found him on gundogbreeders.com

I've had a hell of a time getting a new dog and have narrowly missed out on a few nice started dogs because I take too much time to mull things over.

I appreciate any insight you can offer!

Thank you!
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:49 am

Know they aren't all the same, but I can't read "Cosmo son" without thinking of, shall we say, "high adventure".
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:57 am

What do ya know! A little Cosmo on both sides! :lol3:

IMO pedigrees are strong as is everything else. Great chance the dog is all you need and maybe more but...you can manage and train that. Can't put it in.

Personally...if you (or you and a trainer) are going to train the dog up to a fairly high level (not talking tests or trials just performance) then this should be a great breeding. It will probably take more of your time than your last one to to keep happy but you too will get the rewards. I do like seeing a dog do what is was bred to do - regardless of what kind of work.

It's nice not hitting any limits and it's nice having a smart/driven dog. Again, IMO, it makes training easier.

Mine's Dam was a Cosmo baby, I only spent casual time around her but she was very nice. I haven't been anything but pleased with mine as well. I find 5 Gen's the more interesting look BTW.

https://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/extp ... p?id=54330

I'd take the chance on that litter as I'm fairly confident you wouldn't be disappointed with the pup.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:58 pm

HNTFSH wrote:What do ya know! A little Cosmo on both sides! :lol3:

IMO pedigrees are strong as is everything else. Great chance the dog is all you need and maybe more but...you can manage and train that. Can't put it in.

Personally...if you (or you and a trainer) are going to train the dog up to a fairly high level (not talking tests or trials just performance) then this should be a great breeding. It will probably take more of your time than your last one to to keep happy but you too will get the rewards. I do like seeing a dog do what is was bred to do - regardless of what kind of work.

It's nice not hitting any limits and it's nice having a smart/driven dog. Again, IMO, it makes training easier.

Mine's Dam was a Cosmo baby, I only spent casual time around her but she was very nice. I haven't been anything but pleased with mine as well. I find 5 Gen's the more interesting look BTW.

https://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/extp ... p?id=54330

I'd take the chance on that litter as I'm fairly confident you wouldn't be disappointed with the pup.


Thanks a lot! I appreciate the time you took to look that information over and I respect your opinion. Gonna speak with the breeder this evening and if all goes to plan, put down a deposit. He gets $350 as a deposit and pups are $1,800.
:banana: :banana:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:01 pm

Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:What do ya know! A little Cosmo on both sides! :lol3:

IMO pedigrees are strong as is everything else. Great chance the dog is all you need and maybe more but...you can manage and train that. Can't put it in.

Personally...if you (or you and a trainer) are going to train the dog up to a fairly high level (not talking tests or trials just performance) then this should be a great breeding. It will probably take more of your time than your last one to to keep happy but you too will get the rewards. I do like seeing a dog do what is was bred to do - regardless of what kind of work.

It's nice not hitting any limits and it's nice having a smart/driven dog. Again, IMO, it makes training easier.

Mine's Dam was a Cosmo baby, I only spent casual time around her but she was very nice. I haven't been anything but pleased with mine as well. I find 5 Gen's the more interesting look BTW.

https://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/extp ... p?id=54330

I'd take the chance on that litter as I'm fairly confident you wouldn't be disappointed with the pup.


Thanks a lot! I appreciate the time you took to look that information over and I respect your opinion. Gonna speak with the breeder this evening and if all goes to plan, put down a deposit. He gets $350 as a deposit and pups are $1,800.
:banana: :banana:


I am pretty certain this one will have straight teeth. :beer: Good luck!! I was guessing 2k so you're getting a deal. :thumbsup:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:11 pm

HNTFSH wrote:I am pretty certain this one will have straight teeth.


:lol3: And no annoying limey accent when he/she barks.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby sprigs4days » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:37 pm

Ello guv-na
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:00 pm

Just received confirmation of deposit received. I'm super excited!
The planets finally aligned for me. I've had my chances for some great looking started dogs the past few months and fiddled around until they were sold. Didn't realize it until speaking with the breeder, but the breeding I referenced above was listed on the breeder's website for the first time today and because I was quick, I've got first pick for a female.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Rick Hall » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:30 am

May the gods protect you.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:40 am

Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:07 am

HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


HEY!!!!! :biggrin:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:22 am

Dakota Creek wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


HEY!!!!! :biggrin:


My experience has been they are the meanest. :devil:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:17 am

HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


HEY!!!!! :biggrin:


My experience has been they are the meanest. :devil:


2-legged or 4-legged??? :lol3:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:10 pm

HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


:lol3: :lol3:

A famous man once said:

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be engulfed, every hill shall be exalted and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and female retrievers will be respected .....
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:48 pm

Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


:lol3: :lol3:

A famous man once said:

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be engulfed, every hill shall be exalted and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and female retrievers will be respected .....


I just wanted to:
A. Make sure Madam Dakota was still paying attention.
B. Acknowledge the fact womanizers always pick females.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:06 pm

Locked&Loaded ..... having trained, trialed and hunting both males and females, I would choose a female every time as IMHO they make a better team player than a male.

Having seen and watched enough males over the years, if given the opportunity to mark when or where ever they choose, often develop an "independent operator" attitude. Females rarely attempt to mark as much or often as males do. If you don't spay her, yes you will have to put up with her heat cycles which may or may not be at the most convenient times, but it can be worked around if needed.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:07 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


:lol3: :lol3:

A famous man once said:

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be engulfed, every hill shall be exalted and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and female retrievers will be respected .....


I just wanted to:
A. Make sure Madam Dakota was still paying attention.
B. Acknowledge the fact womanizers always pick females.


:lol:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:51 pm

Dakota Creek wrote:Locked&Loaded ..... having trained, trialed and hunting both males and females, I would choose a female every time as IMHO they make a better team player than a male.

Having seen and watched enough males over the years, if given the opportunity to mark when or where ever they choose, often develop an "independent operator" attitude. Females rarely attempt to mark as much or often as males do. If you don't spay her, yes you will have to put up with her heat cycles which may or may not be at the most convenient times, but it can be worked around if needed.


L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker! :banana:

But seriously - I don't encourage folks one way or another. I do prefer males myself because:

A. They are typically better looking animals
B. Tend to be more aloof around strangers
C. Tend to be more "protective" (in an untrained way that's not as good as aloof)

Now that perspective comes as much from other types of working dog breeds than retrievers so my bias was made early in life.

All our little dogs are females and they mark each other's pee spots all the time. Males can just aim higher (like a soccer mom's thighs during a game). :oops:

Heat cycles do suck but that's a toss up on what's more annoying - the bitch in heat or the neighborhood males within 5 blocks. :fingerhead:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Dakota Creek » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:17 am

HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker!


Oh HNTFSH my friend ..... wrong and wrong! :biggrin:

Wrong #1 .... I do not breed dogs for a living .... I'm a 9 to 5'er who likes to play dog games along with waterfowl and upland hunting. When there is a litter around here it is because we are looking to add to our family.

Wrong #2 ....Breeders are in it for the money .... well no doubt some are, particularly when you get into those rare doodle or color specific breeds! :no:

As to being a "money maker" .... some think that breeding is a quick and easy income stream, particularly if they throw two dogs together with no or very limited health clearances, some money could be made, but this is not always the case .... unsold pups, sick pups, sick dam, etc. As the "breeder" you have to take the good with the bad and you better have funds set aside in case of emergencies.

With our recent breeding we were looking to add a new pup as our old girl is retired (don't tell her that) and the "money maker" label could not be further from the truth! We chose a very nice stud who would make a great match with our female ..... these pups would be great hunting partners and be able to play any dog game you wanted to! Imported frozen semen from the US (stud fee, tank rental, FedEx), progesterone and LH testing to ensure the right breeding date, AI x's 2 to ensure we had plenty of "swimmers", ultrasound to check pregnancy, pre-whelp x-ray where we discovered we were going to need a c-section and after all this we ended up with one healthy puppy! Stuff happens! At five weeks old it is one of the smartest pups we have had around here at that age! Was it worth all that work .... for this puppy, absolutely but it is definitely the MOST expensive puppy we will likely ever own! Really looking forward to see how far this pup will go!
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:32 am

Dakota Creek wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker!


Oh HNTFSH my friend ..... wrong and wrong! :biggrin:

Wrong #1 .... I do not breed dogs for a living .... I'm a 9 to 5'er who likes to play dog games along with waterfowl and upland hunting. When there is a litter around here it is because we are looking to add to our family.

Wrong #2 ....Breeders are in it for the money .... well no doubt some are, particularly when you get into those rare doodle or color specific breeds! :no:

As to being a "money maker" .... some think that breeding is a quick and easy income stream, particularly if they throw two dogs together with no or very limited health clearances, some money could be made, but this is not always the case .... unsold pups, sick pups, sick dam, etc. As the "breeder" you have to take the good with the bad and you better have funds set aside in case of emergencies.

With our recent breeding we were looking to add a new pup as our old girl is retired (don't tell her that) and the "money maker" label could not be further from the truth! We chose a very nice stud who would make a great match with our female ..... these pups would be great hunting partners and be able to play any dog game you wanted to! Imported frozen semen from the US (stud fee, tank rental, FedEx), progesterone and LH testing to ensure the right breeding date, AI x's 2 to ensure we had plenty of "swimmers", ultrasound to check pregnancy, pre-whelp x-ray where we discovered we were going to need a c-section and after all this we ended up with one healthy puppy! Stuff happens! At five weeks old it is one of the smartest pups we have had around here at that age! Was it worth all that work .... for this puppy, absolutely but it is definitely the MOST expensive puppy we will likely ever own! Really looking forward to see how far this pup will go!


:lol3: I was being facetious cause some gals find the tease attractive. :love: No one knows this better than our friend L&L. :bow:

I hear ya, my Riparian Sired pup with the Cosmo Dam was one of two in the litter. :no: Hobby breeder kept the black female and I took the yellow male. There were birth complications there as well.

I bred mine for stud 5 times. First one all I asked for was all the health clearances be paid, the Dam owner was a lifelong dog man, friend, hobby breeder and judge. The other 4 after that were to his apprentice, his two females were "well bred" but not near the same performance pedigree. I took the stud fee of the 1st pup in each case.

So for me, it was about money BUT...he had all the fun. I did enjoy seeing the pups and know they went to great homes but the Sire's job, as you know, is pretty freakin' easy. The Dam's job (and Dam's owner) is very fulfilling and quite a biotch). :lol3:

And nothing is more emasculating than watching your pride & joy Stud, try to figure out "how to do it". :fingerhead: :yes: At that point, if one hasn't already figured it out, the female is basically in charge of the males success. :oops:

No question on the designer mutts...that should be a crime what they ask for the boinking.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:29 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:Ouch. You screwed up this whole thing by going with a female? :huh:


:lol3: :lol3:

A famous man once said:

I have a dream that one day every valley shall be engulfed, every hill shall be exalted and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and female retrievers will be respected .....


I just wanted to:
A. Make sure Madam Dakota was still paying attention.
B. Acknowledge the fact womanizers always pick females.

:lol3: :lol3:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:42 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:Locked&Loaded ..... having trained, trialed and hunting both males and females, I would choose a female every time as IMHO they make a better team player than a male.

Having seen and watched enough males over the years, if given the opportunity to mark when or where ever they choose, often develop an "independent operator" attitude. Females rarely attempt to mark as much or often as males do. If you don't spay her, yes you will have to put up with her heat cycles which may or may not be at the most convenient times, but it can be worked around if needed.


L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker! :banana:

But seriously - I don't encourage folks one way or another. I do prefer males myself because:

A. They are typically better looking animals
B. Tend to be more aloof around strangers
C. Tend to be more "protective" (in an untrained way that's not as good as aloof)

Now that perspective comes as much from other types of working dog breeds than retrievers so my bias was made early in life.

All our little dogs are females and they mark each other's pee spots all the time. Males can just aim higher (like a soccer mom's thighs during a game). :oops:

Heat cycles do suck but that's a toss up on what's more annoying - the bitch in heat or the neighborhood males within 5 blocks. :fingerhead:


I have had females for a couple of reasons .....
When I was a teenager, I received a German shorthaired pointer for a birthday gift from my folks. He spent some time with a pro trainer and he was the best hunting dog I've ever owned. He really was an incredible dog and smart, smart. However, he was only really good when he hunted alone. When he hunted with another male dog, he wanted to constantly brawl and prove that he was the toughest SOB around. When we hunted with a female, he would forget about birds and follow the female around the entire day. I've only ever owned spayed females since and haven't had any of those issues. Also, I do 90% of my waterfowl hunting out of a boat, so the lighter, smaller framed females are a lot easier to lug into the boat after retrieves.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby HNTFSH » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:46 pm

Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:Locked&Loaded ..... having trained, trialed and hunting both males and females, I would choose a female every time as IMHO they make a better team player than a male.

Having seen and watched enough males over the years, if given the opportunity to mark when or where ever they choose, often develop an "independent operator" attitude. Females rarely attempt to mark as much or often as males do. If you don't spay her, yes you will have to put up with her heat cycles which may or may not be at the most convenient times, but it can be worked around if needed.


L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker! :banana:

But seriously - I don't encourage folks one way or another. I do prefer males myself because:

A. They are typically better looking animals
B. Tend to be more aloof around strangers
C. Tend to be more "protective" (in an untrained way that's not as good as aloof)

Now that perspective comes as much from other types of working dog breeds than retrievers so my bias was made early in life.

All our little dogs are females and they mark each other's pee spots all the time. Males can just aim higher (like a soccer mom's thighs during a game). :oops:

Heat cycles do suck but that's a toss up on what's more annoying - the bitch in heat or the neighborhood males within 5 blocks. :fingerhead:


I have had females for a couple of reasons .....
When I was a teenager, I received a German shorthaired pointer for a birthday gift from my folks. He spent some time with a pro trainer and he was the best hunting dog I've ever owned. He really was an incredible dog and smart, smart. However, he was only really good when he hunted alone. When he hunted with another male dog, he wanted to constantly brawl and prove that he was the toughest SOB around. When we hunted with a female, he would forget about birds and follow the female around the entire day. I've only ever owned spayed females since and haven't had any of those issues. Also, I do 90% of my waterfowl hunting out of a boat, so the lighter, smaller framed females are a lot easier to lug into the boat after retrieves.


Well, that IS why hot bitches are prohibited from Test Grounds but envitably some goober has one be it "on the truck" or running stakes. :rolleyes:

I can certainly tell you keep your gals trim for the boat issue. :fingerhead:

:lol3:

:beer:
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:15 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Locked&Loaded wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
Dakota Creek wrote:Locked&Loaded ..... having trained, trialed and hunting both males and females, I would choose a female every time as IMHO they make a better team player than a male.

Having seen and watched enough males over the years, if given the opportunity to mark when or where ever they choose, often develop an "independent operator" attitude. Females rarely attempt to mark as much or often as males do. If you don't spay her, yes you will have to put up with her heat cycles which may or may not be at the most convenient times, but it can be worked around if needed.


L&L - they also throw litters and guess what Dakota does for a living. :lol3: :eek: Shake that money maker! :banana:

But seriously - I don't encourage folks one way or another. I do prefer males myself because:

A. They are typically better looking animals
B. Tend to be more aloof around strangers
C. Tend to be more "protective" (in an untrained way that's not as good as aloof)

Now that perspective comes as much from other types of working dog breeds than retrievers so my bias was made early in life.

All our little dogs are females and they mark each other's pee spots all the time. Males can just aim higher (like a soccer mom's thighs during a game). :oops:

Heat cycles do suck but that's a toss up on what's more annoying - the bitch in heat or the neighborhood males within 5 blocks. :fingerhead:


I have had females for a couple of reasons .....
When I was a teenager, I received a German shorthaired pointer for a birthday gift from my folks. He spent some time with a pro trainer and he was the best hunting dog I've ever owned. He really was an incredible dog and smart, smart. However, he was only really good when he hunted alone. When he hunted with another male dog, he wanted to constantly brawl and prove that he was the toughest SOB around. When we hunted with a female, he would forget about birds and follow the female around the entire day. I've only ever owned spayed females since and haven't had any of those issues. Also, I do 90% of my waterfowl hunting out of a boat, so the lighter, smaller framed females are a lot easier to lug into the boat after retrieves.


Well, that IS why hot bitches are prohibited from Test Grounds but envitably some goober has one be it "on the truck" or running stakes. :rolleyes:

I can certainly tell you keep your gals trim for the boat issue. :fingerhead:

:lol3:

:beer:


:lol3: :lol3: I was hoping you'd pick up on my 'lighter, smaller framed' comment. I saw the parents of the dog I own now and the sire was in the 75ish range and dam in the 60ish range. At the last vet visit my lil petite gal was a whopping 89 lbs! I think WR kennels showed me the wrong parents, took my money and sent me on my way.
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Re: puppy / breeder question

Postby Locked&Loaded » Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:21 am

Puppies were born late last night. :banana:

What do you folks think is the ideal pick-up time -- 7 weeks? 8 weeks? What say ye?
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