3" Hull Information

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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby wtrfwlnut » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:56 am

Sorry to bump an older thread, figured this would be a better place to post a couple questions rather than start a new thread. I actually printed out some of these post's a couple years ago and quite often reference them and I would like to give a huge thanks for you guys sharing your hard earned knowledge, that said here is my first issue, I am unable to see any of the pictures in this thread, they say something about update your account? I assume this is something with Photo bucket but I dont know anything about it. Is there anything I can do to see these pictures? So here is my first question/issue

I hunt mostly public areas where everyone has to hunt out of permanent blinds so I have access to tons of different hulls. Most folks around here shoot Winchester and most of them are the Expert line, now I understand not to go off of what is printed on the outside of the hull, but the Expert branded hulls I find all appear to the high base wad hieght and the Drylock branded hulls appear to be lower. To my understanding, the 3" steel data out there for Winchester hulls are for low base wads, is this correct?
I have a couple other questions but I will wait to post them so as not to have a mile long post.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby jsh909 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:20 pm

The original posters of the pictures would need to update their accounts for the pictures to show, not you.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby wtrfwlnut » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:40 pm

That sucks. I seen them a couple years ago, a lot of useful pictures there.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby Jim Atlas » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:48 pm

I believe most data is written for low base Winchester hulls. The high bas wins have a pretty small volume--closer to a really deep 2-3/4" hull. Perhaps there's a use for them--in fact one member here shared a load that looked pretty good for them, but I never tried it as I have enough other hulls.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:34 am

Just reviewed this thread as someone was asking about hull ID.
Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't use photobucket to post pics... Folks should just post the pics HERE at DHC, then so long as the thread is available, the pics will probably be too. It's not that hard, bit harder than some sites, but doable. Hopefully some of you guys like BT still have the pics you originally posted, and can re-upload them to here and relink. This was a really useful thread.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby wildflights » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:29 am

https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads ... /6129536/1

Photobucket fix for Chrome and Firefox. It works!

HUGE THANK YOU TO YOTETRAPPER30 ON TRAPPERMAN!

"This was mentioned in the current photobucket thread, but it needs it's own post, and maybe even a sticky.

Some time ago, Photobucket made all of their pictures disappear from forums. That means that here, many of the pictures in the archives were lost, as well as people's avatars, signature pics, etc. Well, there is an easy way to fix that. You download a simple little extension, and like magic, they come back. You must be using either Firefox or Chrome browser... there is no fix I can find for IE... But if you're still using IE, you really need to upgrade to a better browser anyways, lol.

For Firefox users: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... 6284990375 Go that link, and click Add to Firefox. Then Add. Then OK. All done.

For Chrome Users: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... apbifiaedg Go that link, and click Add to Chrome. Then click Add Extension. All done.

For Phones: (Android based, don't know if it works on Iphones or not??) Go to Playstore and download Firefox browser. Open the browser, and go to this link. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefo ... 6284990375 Click add to Firefox, then yes or ok. THEN, if it's still not loading the test picture on this post... on the browser, go Settings then Clear Private Data, all the boxes should be checked, then click clear and that SHOULD do it." -Yotetrapper30
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 am

Dave in AZ wrote:Just reviewed this thread as someone was asking about hull ID.
Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't use photobucket to post pics... Folks should just post the pics HERE at DHC, then so long as the thread is available, the pics will probably be too. It's not that hard, bit harder than some sites, but doable. Hopefully some of you guys like BT still have the pics you originally posted, and can re-upload them to here and relink. This was a really useful thread.

Only problem with that Dave is then they become the property of DHC which I'm not to fond of. BugDoc had some of his really great pattern pictures stolen by Phil Borjalai (spelling) and used in an article he wrote with absolutely no credit give to BugDoc.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby Dave in AZ » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:01 am

Wow. Good point,.BT.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:54 am

Dave in AZ wrote:Wow. Good point,.BT.

He didn't even know it happened, I saw the article and thought now that looks very familiar. Sent him the link and sure enough it was one of his, kind of BS if you ask me.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby TMair » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:57 pm

Love the info in this thread, glad it was made a sticky!!
I have a couple of questions on 3" hulls.

1) who makes the RIO hulls, are they cheddite, or will loading data for other 12 gauge Rifenhouser hulls work with them?

2) Same question as #1 only for Kent hulls.

3) Why for the love of all that's holy did Federal decide to make two different hulls for their Black Cloud line of shells?!!

Thanks in advance!!

Terry
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby jsh909 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:02 pm

Kent hulls are cheddite.

Rio hulls are made by Rio and have their own load data. They also use an oversized primer, even bigger than cheddite, so if you use something other than a Rio primer you will need to resize the primer pocket. I will say that I use cheddite data in the Rio hulls, but that needs to be done at your own risk. There is plenty of Rio load data available.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby TMair » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:46 pm

jsh909 wrote:Kent hulls are cheddite.

Rio hulls are made by Rio and have their own load data. They also use an oversized primer, even bigger than cheddite, so if you use something other than a Rio primer you will need to resize the primer pocket. I will say that I use cheddite data in the Rio hulls, but that needs to be done at your own risk. There is plenty of Rio load data available.



Thanks for the reply,
After reading this I looked again, yes there is load data for the RIO hulls I guess I never noticed before, I can ping the primer pocket can you tell me if there is a suitable replacement for the RIO primer?

Thanks again.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby jsh909 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:27 am

To be honest with you, I never really looked into a substitute. I accumulated so many Rio hulls once the federal value packs at Wal-Mart went to Rio hulls (Federal Field & Target) that I just started buying Rio primers.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:38 am

Jim Atlas wrote:I believe most data is written for low base Winchester hulls. The high bas wins have a pretty small volume--closer to a really deep 2-3/4" hull. Perhaps there's a use for them--in fact one member here shared a load that looked pretty good for them, but I never tried it as I have enough other hulls.

Yes Sir most of the load data is for the low base Winchester 3" inch hulls, you can identify them by the primer sticking up roughly half it's length through the basewad. The high base 3" hulls you can't see the primer at all with them, usually Winchester uses these for Turkey or Buckshot loads from what I've seen. You can use them for loads but you have to be careful as pressures will be much great than the low basewad hulls, the 2 3/4" MM/TPS wads fit very nicely in these hulls and you can make some screaming fast 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz steel loads with them, again being careful to adjust your powder amounts down from the low basewad recipes.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:49 am

TMair wrote:Love the info in this thread, glad it was made a sticky!!
I have a couple of questions on 3" hulls.

1) who makes the RIO hulls, are they cheddite, or will loading data for other 12 gauge Rifenhouser hulls work with them?

2) Same question as #1 only for Kent hulls.

3) Why for the love of all that's holy did Federal decide to make two different hulls for their Black Cloud line of shells?!!

Thanks in advance!!

Terry

Go one at a time here
1) Rio was originally the Spanish company UEE, they were bought out by Maxam outdoors, they make their own hulls and primers.
2) Kent uses Cheddite hulls for their loads, I pick up as many as I can when people are shooting the 3" Kent loads as they load up real nice with any 3" Cheddite hull recipe.
3) The ammunition company's don't make hunting loads up with the reloader in mind, they make them up to suit their needs for the particular train car load of components they bought. If what they have fits the higher paper base wad hulls then that's what they use, if what they have fits the lower .090 plastic base hulls then that's what they use. With either 3" Federal hull you can make some really good steel loads
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby TMair » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:58 am

Thanks for the replies!!

Since it is near impossible to find RIO, and Cheddite primers here where I live, and I am not inclined to pay more in shipping and hazmat fees than I am for the primers I think I will just chuck the RIO hulls, to bad really, I bought a couple of flats of them on a good deal from Rogers last year so I have a few of them around.

Sometimes it is possible to find Cheddite primers at Cabela's I will probably hang onto the Kent hulls.

I know why shotgun shell manf do what they do with the hulls, I was just a little surprised to find two different hulls under the same line of shells, and yes they do have some good loads for them, I will be keeping those hulls in both configurations!!

Going on a snow goose hunt in a week, the guide told me I can take all the hulls I want that are left on the ground (pit blind) I am guessing there will be a few black cloud hulls lying around, planning on paying the grand kids to pick them up :smile:

Thanks again for the replies!!!
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:17 pm

Rio hulls work great with Rio209, Fio616, and NobleSport209 primers. Those are the 3 larger "euro size" primers that are tight in a Rio. Cheddite CX2000 (ch209) are loose usually for me, but a peen works ok on them. But Rio has some of the very best plastic in the hull for reloading, and the 2.75" 12ga hulls are one of the largest volumes if you use that size. Haven't shot the 3" ones myself though.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:25 pm

Going on a snow goose hunt in a week, the guide told me I can take all the hulls I want that are left on the ground (pit blind) I am guessing there will be a few black cloud hulls lying around, planning on paying the grand kids to pick them up :smile:

I always pack a trash bag or two with me whenever I go on hunts where there will be a lot of shooting, look like the trash collector running around picking up hulls but free is free !!!!
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby jsh909 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:47 pm

If you don't want the 3in Rio hulls I will take them off your hands.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby TMair » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:48 pm

Dave in AZ wrote:Rio hulls work great with Rio209, Fio616, and NobleSport209 primers. Those are the 3 larger "euro size" primers that are tight in a Rio. Cheddite CX2000 (ch209) are loose usually for me, but a peen works ok on them. But Rio has some of the very best plastic in the hull for reloading, and the 2.75" 12ga hulls are one of the largest volumes if you use that size. Haven't shot the 3" ones myself though.


I have several fio209 primers, if I sub those do I need to adjust the powder to compensate?

Thanks
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby Dave in AZ » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 pm

Well, it's a substitution so it's your choice. I'm not going to tell you it's "safe" without testing or knowing the load.

But I will say that I don't think I've seen any load where the Rio209 primer wasn't "hotter" than the Fio616, pressure wise. I shoot a 3.5" chamber so I don't worry about a sub like that in a 3" load ;)
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:16 am

TMair wrote:
Dave in AZ wrote:Rio hulls work great with Rio209, Fio616, and NobleSport209 primers. Those are the 3 larger "euro size" primers that are tight in a Rio. Cheddite CX2000 (ch209) are loose usually for me, but a peen works ok on them. But Rio has some of the very best plastic in the hull for reloading, and the 2.75" 12ga hulls are one of the largest volumes if you use that size. Haven't shot the 3" ones myself though.


I have several fio209 primers, if I sub those do I need to adjust the powder to compensate?

Thanks

As Dave said usually when the recipes call for Rio primers your OK with the Fiocchi primers.
FWIW if your planning on using the Fiocchi 616 with STEEL powder don't expect any stellar results. The Fiocchi 616 is one of the worst performing primers I have tried with STEEL, average velocity spreads were over 200 fps much higher than any other primer I have tried.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby jsh909 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:54 am

I have more unburnt powder left in my gun with fiocchi primers and steel powder than any other primer I have tried. Conversly the factory fiocchi steel loads burn very clean for me. So I assume fiocchi compensated for this in the factory loading.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby BT Justice » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:25 am

jsh909 wrote:I have more unburnt powder left in my gun with fiocchi primers and steel powder than any other primer I have tried. Conversly the factory fiocchi steel loads burn very clean for me. So I assume fiocchi compensated for this in the factory loading.

Could be the 617 primer's that Fiocchi was supposed to make availble to reloaders and never did. Supposed to be hotter and more consistent than the 616 primers if they do exist.
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Re: 3" Hull Information

Postby 3200 man » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:26 pm

That's a fact about the Rio Blu ( short plastic B/W) hulls ! I've been using them as pitch loads because fellas at the
trap range just toss them in the buckets . They are roomier than most straight walled hulls but like what's said , the
primer pockets are larger than our 209 primers . I use a Mec 77 to resize them and I do Peen the pockets if necessary .
I do load them on the Hotter side as I can do this with shooting my Browning Gold 3 1/2" . In my reloads these have
Big pellets in them and the TPS wads work best in these . :yes:
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