Boss Shotshells Bismuth

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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby BT Justice » Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:45 am

goosepit2007 wrote:
BT Justice wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
AvianAddict wrote:What size shot?


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1350 fps 5 bismuth shot copper and non coated ….same load powder wad hull primer just shot swap(same load as the 30 yard gel test). the noncoated is boss bismuth just from last years loads shot is made in house quality is very good because of that aspect. gel tests for 40 yards goes with the 30 yard gel test that was posted above, the load and shot type is included in the above post with 30 yard gel info. this was all posted as one post on facebook by the owner of boss bismuth co.

here is pod cast that was asking boss bismuth company questions:

https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/e/7/1e77fd ... d5341b6a45

Did he ever get it approved by USFWS or is he going on the assumption they won't care about the copper plating.



https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusia ... ntoxic.php

On link look at bottom after shot types * says coated of copper ECT is ok


Goose

You might want to read this from the federal register about copper and other type coatings, I would not assume anything
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... wl-hunting
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby jsh909 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:38 am

Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:20 am

jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Factory tubes pattern bismuth shot very good and or old fixed choked bbls!! Regular extended non ported tubes pattern great as well, but alot times the factory tubes out pattern the aftermarket tubes.

I use cremator chokes long range and or regular improved mod/full extended (nonported) along with fixed full BBL and or factory tubes in same constrictions. Depends on shotgun I am going to use and patterns from testing.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:31 am

BT Justice wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
BT Justice wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
AvianAddict wrote:What size shot?


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1350 fps 5 bismuth shot copper and non coated ….same load powder wad hull primer just shot swap(same load as the 30 yard gel test). the noncoated is boss bismuth just from last years loads shot is made in house quality is very good because of that aspect. gel tests for 40 yards goes with the 30 yard gel test that was posted above, the load and shot type is included in the above post with 30 yard gel info. this was all posted as one post on facebook by the owner of boss bismuth co.

here is pod cast that was asking boss bismuth company questions:

https://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/1/e/7/1e77fd ... d5341b6a45

Did he ever get it approved by USFWS or is he going on the assumption they won't care about the copper plating.



https://www.fws.gov/birds/bird-enthusia ... ntoxic.php

On link look at bottom after shot types * says coated of copper ECT is ok


Goose

You might want to read this from the federal register about copper and other type coatings, I would not assume anything
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... wl-hunting




This was on that document this is talking pure copper shot needs coating on it

This from the document copy and paste:

Approved shot type * Percent composition by weight Field testing device **

*         *         *         *         *         *         *
Corrosion-inhibited copper ≥99.9 copper with benzotriazole and thermoplastic fluorescent powder coatings Ultraviolet Light.
  *         *         *         *         *         *         *
* Coatings of copper, nickel, tin, zinc, zinc chloride, zinc chrome, fluoropolymers, and fluorescent thermoplastic on approved nontoxic shot types also are approved.
** The information in the “Field Testing Device” column is strictly informational, not regulatory.
* * * * *
Dated: October 25, 2017.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby duurmeehr » Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:50 am

goosepit2007 wrote:
jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Factory tubes pattern bismuth shot very good and or old fixed choked bbls!! Regular extended non ported tubes pattern great as well, but alot times the factory tubes out pattern the aftermarket tubes.

I use cremator chokes long range and or regular improved mod/full extended (nonported) along with fixed full BBL and or factory tubes in same constrictions. Depends on shotgun I am going to use and patterns from testing.
Goose


Hey Goose,

The Cremator tubes are shooting great out of my guns with handloaded bismuth and HW13 as well.

I was not going to ever mention this because of all the ribbing I would get because Ned S used to say how good they shot and everybody always gave him fits when he was alive.

Hope all is well and good hunting!
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:18 am

duurmeehr wrote:
goosepit2007 wrote:
jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Factory tubes pattern bismuth shot very good and or old fixed choked bbls!! Regular extended non ported tubes pattern great as well, but alot times the factory tubes out pattern the aftermarket tubes.

I use cremator chokes long range and or regular improved mod/full extended (nonported) along with fixed full BBL and or factory tubes in same constrictions. Depends on shotgun I am going to use and patterns from testing.
Goose


Hey Goose,

The Cremator tubes are shooting great out of my guns with handloaded bismuth and HW13 as well.

I was not going to ever mention this because of all the ribbing I would get because Ned S used to say how good they shot and everybody always gave him fits when he was alive.

Hope all is well and good hunting!



Same here with cremators very good choke tubes, Carlson hit home run with those tubes!

midrange cremator with steel shot from 6-bbb in 12 gauge and 20 gauge is same long range for bismuth and lead and mid for steel and tungston shot....I would like 20 to be non ported but all have is ported in 20 ga.

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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Huskerfowl » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:20 am

jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Yes, The .580 and .590 Jeb's are non ported. Obviously the patternmaster is ported. It didn't matter. I guess I should cut a shell open and see what kind of wad they use.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:10 pm

Huskerfowl wrote:
jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Yes, The .580 and .590 Jeb's are non ported. Obviously the patternmaster is ported. It didn't matter. I guess I should cut a shell open and see what kind of wad they use.[/quote


Carlson full will out pattern jebs with boss bismuth in 20 gauge ...long range cremator even though ported is great with bismuth from boss. The extended full from carlson throws more even distributed patterns over jebs ....they use gualandi lead wads boss bismuth .
There 20 ga boss copper bismuth loads with 1-1/8 oz going 1350 is all guy needs in twenty gauge. That load will.cover ducks and geese with ease!! Heck I shoot 12 gauge 1-1/8 oz loads of fours or fives for shots out to 50 yards going 1330 fps average ten shots high 1380 fps low 1300 fps ....cold average is 1280 fps cold mean 10 and below for temps!!

Been shooting that load for ever. Also I will add boss is conservative with box fps actually faster then what is on box ...they also load there loads to perform in cold as well.

Try your factory full if you do not want to get Carlson choke tube.



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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Huskerfowl » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:29 pm

goosepit2007 wrote:
Huskerfowl wrote:
jsh909 wrote:Huskerfowl,

Did you try any non ported chokes? Or any that weren't wad stripping chokes?


Yes, The .580 and .590 Jeb's are non ported. Obviously the patternmaster is ported. It didn't matter. I guess I should cut a shell open and see what kind of wad they use.[/quote


Carlson full will out pattern jebs with boss bismuth in 20 gauge ...long range cremator even though ported is great with bismuth from boss. The extended full from carlson throws more even distributed patterns over jebs ....they use gualandi lead wads boss bismuth .
There 20 ga boss copper bismuth loads with 1-1/8 oz going 1350 is all guy needs in twenty gauge. That load will.cover ducks and geese with ease!! Heck I shoot 12 gauge 1-1/8 oz loads of fours or fives for shots out to 50 yards going 1330 fps average ten shots high 1380 fps low 1300 fps ....cold average is 1280 fps cold mean 10 and below for temps!!

Been shooting that load for ever. Also I will add boss is conservative with box fps actually faster then what is on box ...they also load there loads to perform in cold as well.

Try your factory full if you do not want to get Carlson choke tube.



Goose


Thank you for the help. I have a extended and mid range Carlson cremator. I don't know how I can improve patterns much over the Jeb's. I'm very happy with the Boss bismuth just don't like the wad pedals tearing off. You didn't notice that when you patterned?
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:57 pm

That is normal with the wads they use and is safe to use no worries at all.

I still would try your factory full and or carlson full. Even though you have 150 hits the Carlson choke pattern will be more even distribution which is what you want.

Gualandi wads info from description of the wad used in the 1-1/4 oz load;from boss bismuth :

(Snap-away petals break away after firing.) Edited in this post


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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Huskerfowl » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:49 am

goosepit2007 wrote:That is normal with the wads they use and is safe to use no worries at all.

I still would try your factory full and or carlson full. Even though you have 150 hits the Carlson choke pattern will be more even distribution which is what you want.

Gualandi wads info from description of the wad used in the 1-1/4 oz load;from boss bismuth :

(Snap-away petals break away after firing.) Edited in this post


Goose


Snap away petal....now that makes some sense although I've never heard of that before. That's what it has to be because of the clean break from the wad base and they all are very consistent. Thank you very much for that info.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosebuster1301 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:17 pm

Ohio_Waterfowler wrote:
duurmeehr wrote:
AvianAddict wrote:Thanks Dave!


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I shot this today out of my A5 under less than ideal conditions. (rain)

I dang near missed the target trying not to melt. haha

It was 1-1/4 oz #4 at 1320 guesstimated. The recipe in Lyman's said 1370 with 29.5 Longshot and I dropped out 1 grain.

I was thinking about dropping one more grain and trying it again. It sure thumped the oak tree I had the target against. I wish I had some way of testing penetration.

Bismuth #4 40 Yards Improved Modified.jpg



Nice pattern. I dropped that powder charge down .5 grains and get very similar patterns from my A5 3 1/2" but using Jeb"s .680 High Voltage choke at 45 yds. Is way to tight at 20 yds to be of much use with that combination but a switch to a Cremetor LR works fine and good patterns to 40 yds.
What are your thoughts on the jebs vs cremator? One superior to the other? Both even patterns with most shells?

Thanks

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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Shurshot » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:04 am

The “Boss” has arrived .....
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby AvianAddict » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:12 am

I just ordered a case of 20 gauge 4’s, should be here Tuesday!


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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Rob R. » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:41 pm

Are they are actually copper plated vs. copper wash? There is a difference. Neat trick though. I am glad so many companies are getting into the bismuth market. I saw this coming a decade ago. This will definitely hurt Win/Fed/Rem and all their ridiculous gimmicky steel loads. Now guys who do not reload will get a glimpse of what it was like shooting straight lead 30+ years ago. I still make my own bismuth shot as it is still far cheaper but again this will be great news to guys who do not reload.

More power to them.

Keep your Powder Dry. :thumbsup:

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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby 3200 man » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:13 pm

With 6% tin what is there to make it better ? :huh:
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Rob R. wrote:Are they are actually copper plated vs. copper wash? There is a difference.


Thought one of the fans would have answered your question more authoritatively by now, but I gathered from something seen or heard that one of the creators was in the electro-plating business (a process of which I know nothing), so I'm ASSuming that's the process, rather than just a wash. Was my lead era understanding that copper wash was a marketing ploy and the high antimony lead it coated the real reason for better patterning in that case. So I'm also ASSuming bismuth wouldn't show the performance boost apparently found with the Boss combination.

Whole lot of ASSuming goin' on there, as I've not mad at steel and have been more casual eavesdropper than student of the alternatives.

Perhaps this will at least prompt someone more in the know to come tell you I'm lost and set you straight on it.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:09 pm

I believe the boss bismuth is copper plated . It does make a difference with performance over non coated bismuth making shot harder.

I found jebs to be out patterned with norm.extended chokes with patterns being more even distributed throughout pattern

Cremator chokes are better then normal extended chokes and way cheaper to boot can get two chokes for price one jebs.

Jebs chokes with right load do pattern great , wish they was more consistent over alot shot sizes and loads.
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby AvianAddict » Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:52 pm

Got my case of Boss today, excited to put it on paper!ImageImage


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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby AvianAddict » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:25 am

So I opened up one of these shells today, it’s a 1 1/8oz of #4. The shot sits about 2/3rds of an inch above the wad. The shot is pretty round but some are slightly out of shape. I counted 172 pellets in the shell. I don’t reload so I don’t have a proper scale but I used a food scale which weighs in grams and is supposed to be accurate to .1 grams. The shell I opened measured 32.3 grams, a little more than 1 1/8oz shot. I forgot to take a pic of the scale.ImageImageImage


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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby goosepit2007 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 11:25 am

They use gualandi lead wads so above wad is normal dealfor.shot. nice to see a guy to get what pay for in shot weight in factory loads as well!! Put in mod -full and shoot away! If all your shots are under 40 yards mod does good job!! Personally I shoot either mid or long cremator and or improved mod or full extended tubes. But your factory tubes patterns will be good as well.

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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby BusterAZ » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:40 pm

AvianAddict wrote:So I opened up one of these shells today, it’s a 1 1/8oz of #4. The shot sits about 2/3rds of an inch above the wad. The shot is pretty round but some are slightly out of shape. I counted 172 pellets in the shell. I don’t reload so I don’t have a proper scale but I used a food scale which weighs in grams and is supposed to be accurate to .1 grams. The shell I opened measured 32.3 grams, a little more than 1 1/8oz shot. I forgot to take a pic of the scale.ImageImageImage


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Thanks again for putting this info up. I have a ton of Hevi Metal and Hevi X to use up before I buy more 20 gauge ammo, but Boss will be the next flat I buy!
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby AvianAddict » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:46 pm

BusterAZ wrote:
AvianAddict wrote:So I opened up one of these shells today, it’s a 1 1/8oz of #4. The shot sits about 2/3rds of an inch above the wad. The shot is pretty round but some are slightly out of shape. I counted 172 pellets in the shell. I don’t reload so I don’t have a proper scale but I used a food scale which weighs in grams and is supposed to be accurate to .1 grams. The shell I opened measured 32.3 grams, a little more than 1 1/8oz shot. I forgot to take a pic of the scale.ImageImageImage


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Thanks again for putting this info up. I have a ton of Hevi Metal and Hevi X to use up before I buy more 20 gauge ammo, but Boss will be the next flat I buy!

No problem man. Look for patterns on the 20 gauge thread in shot shell ballistics page. Hopefully in the next few weeks I’ll put them on paper.


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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby BusterAZ » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:07 pm

I just picked a some of these exact loads to try out. Any reviews from use in the field? Also, what choke is recommend- mod or full?
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Re: Boss Shotshells Bismuth

Postby AvianAddict » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:38 am

I have still yet to put these on paper but my season opens next week so I will likely give them a go at some point. I know they’re not the same but the Kent Bismuth patterned beat out of my Hevi Shot Ext Range choke which is .589.


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