The Legends Thread

[C M Wings]

It's crazy how the number of threads and posts in this forum have just CRASHED since BT passed away. Amazing how ONE man could be such a catalyst for discussion.

Along with scores of others he taught me the finesse of reloading, and shared data he spent many dollars developing.

I just wanted to say I miss him. I never met him in person, but regardless he was my friend and yours, and I miss how this forum used to resonate with stories, data, and a fun and healthy back and forth.

Hope all have a safe and COVID free Thanksgiving.

Joe

[Big10fathom out]

I don’t have many to get comments from about 10 gauge reloading now.

[Jim Atlas]

Absolutely. Me too. I also miss Triple B.
And Ned S. He started duck hunting in th 30's, and if you waded through his sizzling steel advocacy, there was a lot of first hand history to hear.
Amazing to think that when a man passes, it's not just his body we lose...

[Duckwyatt80]

I was just thinking about Joe (BT Justice) today. I still have a message in my Outbox I sent him, but he never got a chance to answer. We talked a lot about 16 gauge steel shot loads and some about 12 gauge. He sent me one of his 10 gauge manuals about 3-4 months before he passed. I can’t tell you how many times I have asked myself “I wonder what Joe would say about this?” He was a staple here at DHC, Joe and Ned both.

Ned sent me his altitude chart for steel shot for velocity and lethality range.

George Jones said it best, “Lord I wonder, Who’s gonna fill their shoes?”

[C M Wings]

How could I forget to mention Ned along with BT..... Wow now I feel bad.

I used to love the way Ned ended his posts with some pithy phrase like, "Ned, still hunting at 82 years young....."

We should have a sticky with stuff like Ned's altitude chart and BTs freely given load data.....

[HNTFSH]

How could I forget to mention Ned along with BT..... Wow now I feel bad.

I used to love the way Ned ended his posts with some pithy phrase like, "Ned, still hunting at 82 years young....."

We should have a sticky with stuff like Ned's altitude chart and BTs freely given load data.....

How would you like to title the Sticky Thread?

[C M Wings]

The late great BT and Ned.... Thank you

[NW Birdhunter]

Yes, place isn't the same without BT Justice, 10Gage nut. He was a great resource for 10 gauge, 16 gauge, and reloader's in general, definitely missed. One person can and does make a difference.

[Yuchi1]

Absolutely. Me too. I also miss Triple B.
And Ned S. He started duck hunting in th 30's, and if you waded through his sizzling steel advocacy, there was a lot of first hand history to hear.
Amazing to think that when a man passes, it's not just his body we lose...

It’s like losing a library of knowledge, wisdom and fellowship.

[jsh909]

WarWagon was a good one too. Him and BT were the authority on 10 gauge loadings

I miss Frank Lopez too, he was always good at firing up the speed steel crowd, good old times

[NW Birdhunter]

Yes, BT Justice, Triple B, Ned, War wagon, Frank Lopez, the list goes on and on. Great people that enjoyed waterfowl hunting and reloading. Enjoy every day and live your life to the fullest, you never know when you make your last hunt.

[HNTFSH]

I'll get with Dep to create the sticky and maybe you guys can post up some of the great old threads or posts to keep them alive here. Tribute wise - - everyone here OK with calling it The Legends Thread? BT and Ned were great guys for sure but there were quite a few that made this forum one of the best on DHC.

[C M Wings]

I'll get with Dep to create the sticky and maybe you guys can post up some of the great old threads or posts to keep them alive here. Tribute wise - - everyone here OK with calling it The Legends Thread? BT and Ned were great guys for sure but there were quite a few that made this forum one of the best on DHC.

You know what, that's perfect. I was being a little melancholy and narrow minded. And I would suggest maybe even open to posting from guys still with us like Lost and Cannon... though God all Cannon needs is to be called a Legend LMAO.

[derbyacresbob]

I want to give a Shout Out to hawglips, Toasty and Dave in AZ right now because I plan on dying before they do.

I also miss BT Justice and his great information that he shared with us.

[jsh909]

Goosepit and oshay are living legends too

This is a great forum, thanks HNT

[Dep6]

I am more than glad to help, I just went on and renamed this one as the Legends Thread.

[HNTFSH]

And I would suggest maybe even open to posting from guys still with us like Lost and Cannon... though God all Cannon needs is to be called a Legend LMAO.

Make it clear he has to be worm food before he can be a Legend.

Thanks much Dep6!

[C M Wings]

Thanks Dep6!

[jsh909]

I do sort of think the legend thread should focus more on the memories of guys that are no longer with us. Not taking away from the living legends, but they can continue to post , the legends cannot.

[HNTFSH]

BT Justice 1st post on DHC circa '11.

I'd like to see what the computed downrange velocity and energy numbers would be on that load. It's been a long time, but I remember that it was a 1 1/4 oz. 2 3/4" Rem. load with 1's, shot from a Rem. 1100 with a 28" barrel. I believe the barrel length is correct. And, I am pretty certain of the approximate range - 40 yards - as I paced that distance off 100's of times in the process of bow shooting on the range and patterning shotshells. Remingtons I chronographed later generally did not show as much velocity difference as did the Federals of the day, usually about 70 to 80 fps. slower than published. As the gun functioned properly with the load and based on past experience with chronographing Remington steel loads, my best guess is that the MV of that load was likely somewhere between 1100 and 1200 fps., probably closer to 1200 fps. I think the advertised velocity would have been 1275 fps. in that load.

If you can do the calculations, you'll get some idea of what amount of energy is still insufficient to guarantee penetration through a large goose's breast feathers and skin.

Hi tripleb,
Starting with an initial velocity of 1100fps, at 40 yds steel 1's would have a terminal velocity of 644fps, energy of 3.92 ft.lbs., Energy Density of 195, and ballistic gel penetration of 1.61". Granted that's a little weak for shooting geese, but it should have penetrated at least part way through the breast meat.

There are some other possible explanations as to why the shot didn't penetrate. For instance, the side of the bird would have been covered by multiple overlapping layers of flight feathers, which would have offered some additional protection (Didn't anyone ever warn you not to shoot geese wearing body armor? ). There's also the freaky possibility that the pellets ricochetted off the ground and up to the breast. After all, a walking bird has its breast meat facing directly down, and likely would not have been hit dead on by someone shooting from the side (and slightly above, since you were shooting from an embankment). Finally, have you considered the possibility that the bruises came from another shot? This seems unlikely, but is a possibility.

Just for comparison, that same load with an initial velocity of 1550fps produces 40 yard values of 778fps, 5.73 ft.lbs., ED of 285, and gel penetration of 2.08", which agrees really well with your observation as the max distance this would work for body hits.
Later,
BD

OOr he could have just had a bad load...which has happened on occasion also. But as far as shot bouncing off of geese yes it has happened...some of you might call it ridiculous, but a snow goose can have 3 inches of feather and down to penetrate...yeah I believe it and have seen it.

[wildflights]

A DHC Legends thread needs an honorably mentioned HG load.

Hi James,
The post you asked me about I was talking about when I built the 3" rto load, as I call it. It starts with a new primed 2 3/4" Ched hull and is roll crimped with a clear plastic disc. This load is loaded with 1 1/4oz of #1s at 1475fps. I get some awsome patterns with it that are like 97% patterns at 45 yards. Note that since it is in a 2 3/4" hull, it gives the same volume loaded as a 3" shell because of the rto crimp.
It is not the HG load. By the way, everyone seems to ask, what does HG stand for? It stands for Holy Grail. You might have noticed that I posted often about how hard it is to get #2 size steel pellets to pattern evenly. The HG load is the only recipe that I have developed or loaded that seems to thrive using this size pellet. #2 pellets are the perfect size for making an all around duck load but finding a load that likes them has been the downfall of using this size pellet. The HG load is the only load I have come up with win 25 plus years of loading steel to do so.
HG load =
once fired or new Ched hull
Ched CX2000 primer
34gr Asteel
B&P32 wad
492gr #2 steel shot
gaep finish crimp (optional)
1475fps
I might add that I still like to shoot factory loads on occasion as well as test them on paper. Among these, I have tried reloading hevi shot and hevi factory plus duplex hevi and steel which is Hevi Metal, TSS etc. I take pride in being able to load and kill with regular steel shot. You cant kill a bird any deader with the hevi shot than you can with a good load of regular steel. I feel using hevi shot, blind side, Black Cloud is a crutch for poor shooting ability. The same can be said for using a 10ga instead of a 12ga to an extent.
As long as you shoot your birds within a respectable range of less than 50 yards, you can take a shortcut getting an effective steel shot recipe like the HG load and become a deadly waterfowl shooter. Of cousre the main ingrediant is good shooting ability which does not come by magic. Several years ago I was at a stand still on my shooting ability and limited to using a IC choke for best success. Not until a couple of years of solid practice at the skeet range was I able to move up to using the chokes I use which are between light full and X full. I have some pattern pics of the above loads that I can send you only by email.

Chris

Miss both Joe and Chris. Always helpful, always informative. The kind of guys that you'd like to have in the blind.

[fowledlogic]

Just want to add my appreciation of all the afore-mentioned gentleman, especially BT. And I'll mention another name, TuJays(John M.). If you shoot a Versamax and want to know more about the gun or Need to know more about it, his long running thread at SW is a wealth of information! Remington even incorporated some of his suggestions as changes in the build. Another one among us who left way too soon.

[NW Birdhunter]

Wow, Tujay passed? Never had a clue. He seemed to be very knowledgeable. Sad to hear that.

[Leadhead]

Just stopped by after years of neglect. Sorry to hear of the passing of BT who along with Ned helped me struggle after discovering reloading for the first time years ago. I knew of Ned's passing but not BT's since I have not visited the sight in a long time.
I will never forget all of help I received from everyone here on the Chat.
I still load a little but my hunting days are quickly going by. I check in every once in awhile just to see who is still here, and what the conversation s are.
Merry Christmas to everyone and hopefully good time ahead.
Leadhead,

[Duckwyatt80]

Just stopped by after years of neglect. Sorry to hear of the passing of BT who along with Ned helped me struggle after discovering reloading for the first time years ago. I knew of Ned's passing but not BT's since I have not visited the sight in a long time.
I will never forget all of help I received from everyone here on the Chat.
I still load a little but my hunting days are quickly going by. I check in every once in awhile just to see who is still here, and what the conversation s are.
Merry Christmas to everyone and hopefully good time ahead.
Leadhead,

I can honestly say I wouldn’t be where I am at in my steel shot reloading without all the help from BT through the years. I sure miss how much he kept a thread alive.