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Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:33 am
by OUTATIME
Is it illegal to have the tender boat scare flocks of ducks to the layout gunner?

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:02 pm
by Dep6
I know for a fact it is not in the State of Georgia and I am pretty sure that is gonna carry nation wide. If you been doing it, I would stop, if you see it happening, call the GW please. I call it running and gunning, it just ain't right!! :no:

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:31 pm
by OUTATIME
I just needed help proving it to a couple people I know, thanks

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:54 pm
by garlicsalt
You can not do that in Caljackistan.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:39 pm
by Theduckguru
It is called rallying, and yes it is illegal.

https://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-huntin ... iting.html

“Rallying. You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat.”

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:30 pm
by toolmaker
Well.....you cannot hunt waterfowl driven or rallied by someone of your own party....but you are certainly allowed to shoot ducks that are driven to the air and then lite into your spread from an unknown boat...as a commercial fishing boat or a duck hunter you are not with who is going back to the ramp...

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:07 pm
by HAKA
Or you could bring a kayak or canoe and use that to stir up the birds...

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:17 pm
by Theduckguru
toolmaker wrote:Well.....you cannot hunt waterfowl driven or rallied by someone of your own party....but you are certainly allowed to shoot ducks that are driven to the air and then lite into your spread from an unknown boat...as a commercial fishing boat or a duck hunter you are not with who is going back to the ramp...


A guy transitioning an area is not rallying. But if Clyde the duck hunter, who you have never met, decides it is a calm day and he just going to stir the divers up for all you good old boys to shoot by running around the lake about a dozen times, you and Clyde can be cited.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:30 pm
by The Pas Swamp Donkey
Someone in a kayak gently pushing the birds up is very effective. Done that a lot in the past. Kayaker usually gets to jump a few birds themselves. Only legal if no motor. Illegal to use motorized boat to rally ducks in Canada.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:40 am
by toolmaker
Theduckguru wrote:
toolmaker wrote:Well.....you cannot hunt waterfowl driven or rallied by someone of your own party....but you are certainly allowed to shoot ducks that are driven to the air and then lite into your spread from an unknown boat...as a commercial fishing boat or a duck hunter you are not with who is going back to the ramp...


A guy transitioning an area is not rallying. But if Clyde the duck hunter, who you have never met, decides it is a calm day and he just going to stir the divers up for all you good old boys to shoot by running around the lake about a dozen times, you and Clyde can be cited.


the "you" IN THAT STATEMENT , cant be cited! but your friend Clyde could!!!!!!!

and I didn't mention anything about a guy running around a lake a dozen times....

if some joker is stirring the birds over and over...hes liable for a ticket and anyone the feds can associate with him as a party, but every duck hunter in town hunting the bay isn't liable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:06 am
by Smith
toolmaker wrote:....if some joker is stirring the birds over and over...hes liable for a ticket and anyone the feds can associate with him as a party, but every duck hunter in town hunting the bay isn't liable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We don't know this for sure. If Clyde is doing this in plain view right in front of you, a case might be made that you were complicit. After all, it takes two for the rallying thing to stick: a driver and a shooter. Clyde's doing the driving and you're doing the shooting. Sorta like when Clyde dumps a couple hundred pounds of corn in your favorite spot and you're caught hunting over it. :sad:
Anyway, how would you prove you don't know Clyde?

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:21 pm
by toolmaker
Smith wrote:
toolmaker wrote:....if some joker is stirring the birds over and over...hes liable for a ticket and anyone the feds can associate with him as a party, but every duck hunter in town hunting the bay isn't liable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We don't know this for sure. If Clyde is doing this in plain view right in front of you, a case might be made that you were complicit. After all, it takes two for the rallying thing to stick: a driver and a shooter. Clyde's doing the driving and you're doing the shooting. Sorta like when Clyde dumps a couple hundred pounds of corn in your favorite spot and you're caught hunting over it. :sad:
Anyway, how would you prove you don't know Clyde?


I wouldn't think id HAVE TO PROVE, I DONT KBNOW CLYDE, I thought they have to prove I DO KNOW HIM........but enough of the semantics,,,,, if you want to Rally birds go ahead.......if some come to me, Ill deal with the warden on my own!

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:27 am
by Slack Tide
It's called hearding and yes, it is illegal (here in NY) as you described it.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:40 pm
by dr_freeze
In NC it's illegal. Heard a FGW call it 'harassment of wildlife'

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 am
by Slack Tide
To the OP;
While to some degree it is a matter of semantics, it's really a matter of what are the helmsman's intentions. I can only be anchored up waiting my turn for so long so I'd want to take a ride. If my wake happens to put birds up and they happen to fly into my guys or any other guys, that's neither here nor there. If I intentionally aim full out at a flock of 4000 birds that are a few hundred hards away from my rig, then it's pretty obvious what my intentions were and that is not ok.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:21 pm
by QuackerSmacker498
Wow, never thought of it that way. What does this mean for jump shooting? If guys are set up at the end of a pond, dith, slough, etc... and someone else jumps a group of birds amd the set party dumps a few, is that illegal? Or only if they are buddies and working together to kill ducks.

I think the argument of hearding ducks with a boat is soft at best. Once the bird is jumped by a passing boater, the bird can fly any direction it wants, very thin argument for the boater forcing the direction of flight for the bird to its terminal flight. It may be illegal but it seems the argument is very objective and open to a bunch of interpretation.

How is it any differnet than a deer drive, rabbit drive, or even pushing pheasant in a line of hunters through a field. These are all legal hunting tactics, probably not the most ethical, but legal none the less. Does it have to do with federal migatory bird issues?

Enlighten me, does anyone have the exact verbiage from their states laws?

In California, I know its illegal to shoot into a GRIND, but I've never heard of two guys bumping game to eachother as being illegal.

Does the same hold true if two hunting buddies work together to jump shoot. Hunter one kicks the bird up, but hunter two shoots the bird?

The concept is the same, or does it only apply when using a motorized boat?

Help me out?

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:29 pm
by QuackerSmacker498
Im not advocating this type of hunting behavior or tactics, but what I have experienced with most wardens, mainly Federal, they tend to make mountains out of molehills. And that being the case, I could easily see how they would try to make a case for "Rallying birds" for one guy bumping a couple birds to another hunter.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:10 am
by Slack Tide
I think it's a fine line but intent is what's the deal breaker. Interesting point of a few guys walking abreast with the intent of kicking up a bird and expanding their chances at a shot at a bird because their buddy may kick one up and fly your way......I have no problem with that. That's also pretty much what you do while pheasant/rabbit hunting anyway. I think that would be dismissed as a safe tactic to stay a safe distance from your buds.
You shooting birds that came to you because a boat happen to go by and kick up birds?, no problem. Your tender with your buddies in it doing laps setting out to kick up birds, no good.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:20 am
by Theduckguru
toolmaker wrote:
Theduckguru wrote:
toolmaker wrote:Well.....you cannot hunt waterfowl driven or rallied by someone of your own party....but you are certainly allowed to shoot ducks that are driven to the air and then lite into your spread from an unknown boat...as a commercial fishing boat or a duck hunter you are not with who is going back to the ramp...


A guy transitioning an area is not rallying. But if Clyde the duck hunter, who you have never met, decides it is a calm day and he just going to stir the divers up for all you good old boys to shoot by running around the lake about a dozen times, you and Clyde can be cited.


the "you" IN THAT STATEMENT , cant be cited! but your friend Clyde could!!!!!!!

and I didn't mention anything about a guy running around a lake a dozen times....

if some joker is stirring the birds over and over...hes liable for a ticket and anyone the feds can associate with him as a party, but every duck hunter in town hunting the bay isn't liable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Actually if someone is rallying birds and YOU are shooting them, YOU can be cited. “You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat”.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:12 am
by QuackerSmacker498
Great points by all and an interesting read!

I think that as long as its not a habitual "scaring" or causing the birds to flight you are probably OK.

That would be tough to prove in court, short of having a video of the continued behavior because its so objective.

On slow days, I personally love the sound of the train and or boats ripping through the bay because it causes the birds to get up.

In my area the birds have such a vast area to refuge (40,000+ acres) that is not accessible to hunters, the birds often figure this out by the third shoot day of the season. This can present quite a challenge if you know what I mean.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:38 pm
by toolmaker
im revisiting this thread...there is absolutely nothing illegal about scaring birds to your buddies...you just cant do it with a motorized vehicle of any form.... you can ceetainly scare ducks on a creek on foot so they fly to your buddy down a few hundred years!!!!!!! same goes for any type of man propelled boat...row boat or canoe or kayak! The federal law applies to motorized vehicles

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:48 am
by Rick Hall
Haven't read the thread, but am pretty sure the Federal rallying prohibition also includes vessels under sail power.

Re: Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:19 pm
by Phytoplankton
Rick Hall wrote:Haven't read the thread, but am pretty sure the Federal rallying prohibition also includes vessels under sail power.



Yes, you are correct.

As far as the guy that goes out several times in his boat and scares up resting birds, if his buddies shoot at them it is driving/rallying. He could still be charged with harassing waterfowl even if no one shoots at them.