SE ID Boat of Choice

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SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby R-B3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:18 am

Posted a while back about a Boise vs Idaho Falls relocation from Lewiston. Well, the verdict is final. We are headed to Idaho Falls. Needless to say, I'm pumped. I need to start looking for another job, but instead, I am thinking about what type of boat would work best for a duckhunter/fisherman down around that area. We all have our priorities right?

Currently, my rig is a 16x48 jon boat with a 20 hp Suzuki prop on the back. I have been looking at a lot of the reservoirs and rivers down there on GE, and it seems to me that a long-tailed mud motor or a jet boat would work better. I'm seeing a lot of mud flats around the lakes and a lot of potentially prop busting rocks in the rivers. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Thanks,

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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby BGipson » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:30 am

The guys I know with boats run jets. There is actually a thread in the sticky section of this Idaho forum about boats. My eventual plan is to get an 18-20' sled with pods and a large jet. Never hurts having extra power when the wind or current makes things interesting with a heavy load of waterfowl gear aboard.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:48 am

If you want the all-around for both hunting and fishing the river, and fishing the Reservoirs as well in E Idaho, a Jet foot is the way to go.
I use my 14 ft, and 50 HP and Jet Foot to troll the reservoirs and fish the river with myself and one other.
I have always felt it a mite too small for hunting two guys and 90 Lb Lab.
Dedicated Waterfowlers on the river that I know all have MM. But none of them fish the reservoirs much. Tho they can use their boats to access certain areas on river for fishing.
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:13 pm

I run a 1654 tracker with a 90hp Jet. It runs well and is perfect for SE Idaho. I live in Pocatello. Your boat would work when you learn the river running a prop. I would suggest finding a jet though. If you went with a mud motor I would go with a surface drive and stay away from long tails. Unless your planning on going very slow and hunting nasty mud and not hauling a lot. A long tail won’t work. They don’t get on plane and are small.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:14 pm

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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby R-B3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:35 pm

I've been thinking about a jet since I moved to Lewiston. Probably the way to go. I may keep the suzuki 20hp for fishing during the summer and just exchange after hunting season. I see your boat, Tenner. Prop or jet?
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby R-B3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:37 pm

R-B3 wrote:I've been thinking about a jet since I moved to Lewiston. Probably the way to go. I may keep the suzuki 20hp for fishing during the summer and just exchange after hunting season. I see your boat, Tenner. Prop or jet?

Scratch the question, Tenner. I read the post above the picture! Promise I pay better attention when I'm actually duck hunting. It's a wonder though....
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:49 am

Ya your prop motor would be fine for fishing. Way nicer to troll with as well. Jets do not steer very nice when trolling. If you wanted to keep your prop motor. I do know guys that run them in really shallow stuff. They put a manual or hydraulic jack plate on it so they can raise the motor up. Hydraulic works best as you can raise on the fly. So pretty much they have it low when getting on plane and deeper water then when it comes to run in 2ft or less they will raise the motor up so the prop is just barely in the water. Now it acts somewhat as a mud motor. They will still cut thru vegetation and a little mud if needed. I know a lot of carp hunters that run boats like this.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:36 pm

My 50 HP Merc has a Jet foot, but I have tiller on it for steering, and being a 14 footer, I can actually troll for Bass within 10 ft of the bank, and have done so with success many times, but it really comes into it's own on the Snake river.
A tiller on any boat is going to give as close to instant response as you can get!
IMG_1606.JPG
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby 3200 man » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:08 pm

Our local rivers are somewhat smaller than the mighty Snake so I would question HOW a tiller driven motor would
out perform a consol driven Jet powered boat ? My 14'9" FB with a 60 hp (45 jet) maneuvers tight-ass turns just fine
but , you have to know the river and have some experience in reading the water to know what I'm talking about !
My boat is a Waterfowl killing , fish hauling machine , With comfort..... :yes: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:32 pm

3200 man wrote:Our local rivers are somewhat smaller than the mighty Snake so I would question HOW a tiller driven motor would
out perform a consol driven Jet powered boat ? My 14'9" FB with a 60 hp (45 jet) maneuvers tight-ass turns just fine
but , you have to know the river and have some experience in reading the water to know what I'm talking about !
My boat is a Waterfowl killing , fish hauling machine , With comfort..... :yes: :lol3: :lol3:


How?
I can get full right or left thrust in 1/4 second and only know of floor stick steering that can match that for quick.
Can't tell me a wheel on a console doesn't have to be cranked at least one revolution+ to change direction of thrust, and that takes time, even if only a few moments.
I can kick tiller right or left at trolling speed, put a tiny goose to it and avoid a rock collision near shore, or snag in the river instantly.
Of course the size of my boat has a lot to do with that. So if I strictly fished lakes and reservoirs, I'd want a V bottom, prop driven cabin cruiser in the 22-24 ft range with heated seats and stick steering. I don't like yoke steering in boats or aircraft.
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby R-B3 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:21 pm

So I should get the v-bottom with the heated seats, 150 hp prop Yamaha on the back and a 8hp kicker for lakes and then change my 20 hp Suzuki to a 30 hp Jet engine. Oh yea, that's easy guys. I wouldn't get any flack for a 2 boat set-up. Maybe she'll give compliments.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:34 pm

Fsbirdhouse wrote:My 50 HP Merc has a Jet foot, but I have tiller on it for steering, and being a 14 footer, I can actually troll for Bass within 10 ft of the bank, and have done so with success many times, but it really comes into it's own on the Snake river.
A tiller on any boat is going to give as close to instant response as you can get!
IMG_1606.JPG


Yes FS your right. I forgot to mention that. If it’s a tiller they troll pretty well and steer nice. A console steer does not like to steer going slow.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 pm

3200 man wrote:Our local rivers are somewhat smaller than the mighty Snake so I would question HOW a tiller driven motor would
out perform a consol driven Jet powered boat ? My 14'9" FB with a 60 hp (45 jet) maneuvers tight-ass turns just fine
but , you have to know the river and have some experience in reading the water to know what I'm talking about !
My boat is a Waterfowl killing , fish hauling machine , With comfort..... :yes: :lol3: :lol3:


I don’t think FS was meaning it out performs a console steer in all aspects. I will say for the driving portion running WOT to and from spots a console is great and hard to beat, but when it comes to slowing down and trying to troll at idle a tiller is way easier to control.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:40 pm

R-B3 wrote:So I should get the v-bottom with the heated seats, 150 hp prop Yamaha on the back and a 8hp kicker for lakes and then change my 20 hp Suzuki to a 30 hp Jet engine. Oh yea, that's easy guys. I wouldn't get any flack for a 2 boat set-up. Maybe she'll give compliments.


If it was me I would go bigger than a 30hp Jet. Your 20hp prop would out perform a 30 jet. I like 50hp on 14ft boots and 60hp at least on a 16ft and then 18ft you’d want at least a 90hp


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:14 am

FS, your that boat a Hewescraft River Runner by any chance? Looks kinda like one.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:28 am

Tenner wrote:I run a 1654 tracker with a 90hp Jet. It runs well and is perfect for SE Idaho. I live in Pocatello. Your boat would work when you learn the river running a prop. I would suggest finding a jet though. If you went with a mud motor I would go with a surface drive and stay away from long tails. Unless your planning on going very slow and hunting nasty mud and not hauling a lot. A long tail won’t work. They don’t get on plane and are small.


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Tenner,
Besides a certain section of the river immediately below the Dam (You know where), and another launch down from there, (You also know where), where do you think he could use a prop other than those spots?
Having run the river from Blackfoot downstream to AF for almost thirty years now, I can't think of anywhere in the area I would try using a prop, unless on a MM.
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:32 pm

Fsbirdhouse wrote:
Tenner wrote:I run a 1654 tracker with a 90hp Jet. It runs well and is perfect for SE Idaho. I live in Pocatello. Your boat would work when you learn the river running a prop. I would suggest finding a jet though. If you went with a mud motor I would go with a surface drive and stay away from long tails. Unless your planning on going very slow and hunting nasty mud and not hauling a lot. A long tail won’t work. They don’t get on plane and are small.


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Tenner,
Besides a certain section of the river immediately below the Dam (You know where), and another launch down from there, (You also know where), where do you think he could use a prop other than those spots?
Having run the river from Blackfoot downstream to AF for almost thirty years now, I can't think of anywhere in the area I would try using a prop, unless on a MM.


Ya there are not many places. I have seen people do it in the summer when the water is running high, but most of these people have the jack plates on the boat so they can lift the prop to water level when on plane.

I still do think that a Jet is the way to go though.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:19 pm

I do too.
But I've heard that may not be the case at Market lake? I've heard MMs rule there in the shallow water.
What I've seen MM come into their own is over short distances up very shallow sloughs off the main channel of the Snake, at least around here, but I don't own one, nor have spent much time in them, so guys using them may disagree.
Unless those sloughs are exceptionally long, I find a good pair of oars get me into such areas without danger of chewing up a prop on rocks buried in the mud.
Of course my boat is small, so oars have no problem getting the job done, and I have a center seat much like a drift boat that I can sit in to row.
IMG_1573.JPG
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby 3200 man » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:37 pm

Hey Fs , I see your Pump intake sits a lot farther below your boat , than mine ?
That metal transom riser doesn't look high enough , Why ? To long of shaft ?
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:52 pm

HaydenHunter wrote:FS, your that boat a Hewescraft River Runner by any chance? Looks kinda like one.

Nope!
A Mick boat. Don't know history but I'm thinking it was built in Pocatello.
Had this one twenty seven years.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:54 pm

3200 man wrote:Hey Fs , I see your Pump intake sits a lot farther below your boat , than mine ?
That metal transom riser doesn't look high enough , Why ? To long of shaft ?


I think picture is deceiving.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby goosepond » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:31 am

Fsbirdhouse wrote:I do too.
But I've heard that may not be the case at Market lake? I've heard MMs rule there in the shallow water.
What I've seen MM come into their own is over short distances up very shallow sloughs off the main channel of the Snake, at least around here, but I don't own one, nor have spent much time in them, so guys using them may disagree.
Unless those sloughs are exceptionally long, I find a good pair of oars get me into such areas without danger of chewing up a prop on rocks buried in the mud.
Of course my boat is small, so oars have no problem getting the job done, and I have a center seat much like a drift boat that I can sit in to row.

Been running a 23 HP Go Devil long tail since 1999 and i'll tell ya, Market and Mud Lakes serve me just fine (and you are correct FS for there) and have a lot to get out of the "hole" when I need to and will serve a lot better in shallow water when I need it. Used it for years on the Snake from McTucker all the way to Shelley area and not a problem with all of my gear, 2 dogs etc. You put a 2nd person in (have a 16 ft x 68 semi-v Polar Craft a little heavier boat) and it does slow down. But, for most part what I hunt these days, my long tail does great and I wont trade it. The guy I hunt with has a 37 HP Mud Buddy Surface drive he has upgraded the carb etc to 42 HP and with all of our gear and 2 dogs, OMG it flies. It is on a 16 x68 semi-v. I would take that if you were going to run on the Snake or most anywhere anytime. He uses it to fish Snake and other reservoirs all the time for fly-fishing Small Mouth, Trout, etc and doesn't have an issue one. For the other Choice to me is jet foot, but, if the Snake has a lot of slush ice, I have seen jets stuck on the bank trying to get unplugged and then back up the river where a MM (long tail or surface) goes right through it and it also will break a lot of ice to which a jet generally wont. I used a prop early before my MM and no way in H*** would I use it now that I know the river. Had several close calls getting stuck with transom pointing up river and water starting to fill boat. Just to dangerous to me to be on Snake around East Idaho in most places.

I then switch out to a 25 HP Evinrude in summer for fishing reservoirs etc. Works great for me.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:47 am

Goosepond is right about modded shorttail mud motors having power. I am currently running a Prodrive shorttail with modified carbeuration, heads and exhaust. Furthermore, if you crack the block open and add an aftermarket cam and / or pistons you can take a 35-36 hp V-Twin motor way up in HP and torque. I have a heavy 1852 welded 1/8" thick boat and with two guys, a dog, boat blind and the spread of death can get it up on plane and running in the 18-24 mph range depending on conditions. My buddy has a Mudbuddy shorttail that can propel his 1860 boat at 24-28 mph under load. These are not your grandfather's mud motors.

We don't worry about slush ice up in the Panhandle, but we do run through ice in the later season. The reason I have a mud motor and not an outboard is dealing with shallow muddy waters and particularly with weeds. I can run shallow, milfoil-infested waters at speeds ranging from a slow troll to up on plane. You just can't do that with a prop or jet. And because some of the areas we hunt up here are rivers that experience big drops from summer to winter pool levels, the mud motor has negotiated many a shallow gravel bar without curling the prop into a useless ball of aluminum. My stainless steel prop has suffered many rock hits this year but is still going strong. If I did not have to contend with weeds and ran primarily shallow gravel / rock rivers I would seriously consider running a jet outboard.

If you consider a shorttail mud motor and live in Southeast Idaho you should think Mudbuddy. They are made down in Salt Lake City, making them the closest manufacturer of this type of engine. My buddy is the Mudbuddy dealer for North Idaho. If you want to take a run to see what these motors can do (before you leave Lewiston for SoID) he is happy to do that for you.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 am

It sounds to me like Goosepond has a good set up, and Hayden as well.
I'm glad they jumped in on the MM issues as my experience has just been to ride in them.

I would only get a large V bottom boat with a prop if I were strictly going to use it on lakes and reservoirs.
They need a certain amount of water under them.

My little Tub pictured above covers about anything I may need for two guys on the Snake.
Bought it for $1450 27 years ago. Of course there have been repairs and changes as seems to be needed on all boats that get used hard.
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
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