SE ID Boat of Choice

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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby goosepond » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:48 pm

Prodrive motors definitely interest me. I just watched Youtube clip of a guy running one up a rocky,shallow stream out West. Obviously he knew the water, but the motor seemed to do well in the shallow spots. If I'm understanding right; the surface drive will work in the Snake out East but a jet would be better for the river? What about hunting those boggy spots like Market and Mud and the upper end of American Falls? I have a 16x48 riveted Alumacraft. What size jet and what size surface drive would you choose? The boat says its rated for motors up to 35 HP. Should I look to sell my current set up and go with an 18x60 modified Jon?[/quote]

To me, a lot depends on your overall intended uses. If you are mainly using for waterfowl hunting, to me, a surface drive is where I'd go. Especially if you are going to or intending to hunt Mud and/or Market. Remember, Market isn't that big and you don't need a lot of speed, just ability to get in a lot of shallower water with mud bottoms. Only draw back on the surface drive in the mud bottoms is you don't get out of the hole very fast or well. I have seen some guys, and my buddies outfit is one, that because you are trying to get out of short holes for the most part with mud bottoms, it is hard at times to get up enough speed to get on plane, so it makes it very hard to maneuver on Market, but, guys do do it.

Mud lake is good for surface drive, much longer distances and a lot easier to get on plane and hold it. But, if you try the west end with marginal water, I wouldn't put anything in there because if you get a north wind, you loose your water and your sunk anyhow.

Anywhere on the Snake in east Idaho a surface will work. You just need to know how to read the water on the river no matter which motor your working. Ya, there are rock spots and riffles, but, if you know what you are doing, you can navigate quite well. Once again, no matter what motor/boat you are using, if you don't watch what your doing, your going to drag bottom and if you don't get high centered at least once, your not boating, LMAO :).

I would go with modified V for boat, smoothes out the ride in rougher water and seems to ride a lot better. And that is unless you get a boat specifically built for a mud motor, smooth bottom no ribs, etc. Believe me they do make a ton of difference, and guys that want to put a lot of money into their set ups, get an ideal ride/motor, but they are built for it. Longer, narrower boat really rides on the water. And I agree, a 35 hp seems to be the motor I see most with around here. You can always put modified carb and muffler system on it if you want a little more HP, but, a 35 should easily take at least 2 guys, 2 dogs, and all the gear and dekes that you want on any body of water.

With my set up and I wanted to just change out the motor, I would stay with long tail and go to around a 30 hp. just because that Is what I am familiar with and know how to ride that sweet spot on the river. And the long tail to me, works a lot better on the smaller bodies of water that I hunt and getting out of the hole, running in ice, and slush conditions, which I used to do a lot more than I do know. I used to be able to go through about 2 inches of ice, slowly, and the long tail I could work the ice without beating my prop up to bad, but I could still break a lot of ice with it and move it under or into voids of ice where a surface or jet, you just cant do it.

As I am sure many are saying, there is no perfect motor/boat combo for everything you want to run in, just pick the outfit that fits what you hunt best and then make it work for everything else. OH, if I had to do my entire outfit over again, I definitely would have an open center, no seats. You can put any seat you want into the boat, but the ability to move around and balance your load is much easier with open concept vs one with built in seats like mine.

Good luck :fingerhead:
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby R-B3 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:46 am

Man, that's great info. I've been considering the surface drive. I'll be fishing with it, too. I think that may be the way to go. You can navigate the river with a surface drive and still get into the boggy spots. Not 100% sold on either yet bc a jet still serves a great purpose, so I still have some thinking to do on the topic. It's a serious investment anyways....duck hunting--so serious...

Definitely like the open concept idea with the exception of having a trolling motor deck so can pull spinner rigs when I chase walleye. I just listened to a guy speak about boat choices and he said pick a boat/motor that fits you 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time just adapt. Isn't that the truth....
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:54 am

R-B3 wrote:Man, that's great info. I've been considering the surface drive. I'll be fishing with it, too. I think that may be the way to go. You can navigate the river with a surface drive and still get into the boggy spots. Not 100% sold on either yet bc a jet still serves a great purpose, so I still have some thinking to do on the topic. It's a serious investment anyways....duck hunting--so serious...

Definitely like the open concept idea with the exception of having a trolling motor deck so can pull spinner rigs when I chase walleye. I just listened to a guy speak about boat choices and he said pick a boat/motor that fits you 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time just adapt. Isn't that the truth....


Break that down a little further. What do you think you'll need 'Most' of the time? In other words, look around at others.
I know I can't recall ever seeing anybody on a Reservoir with a MM, but I'm sure it happens.
Can't recall but few on the river in the Summer, but I'm sure that happens as well.

See Jet foot boats all the time, and everywhere.
Try out your MM on the river and some of our reservoirs as well. If you change your mind about it, there are still enough folk in the Inter Mountain West that you can always sell it, but there could be a wait period before the right one comes along.
On the other hand, if you go with a Jet foot and then change your mind, that will be easier to change out I'd think?
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:04 am

goosepond wrote:
As I am sure many are saying, there is no perfect motor/boat combo for everything you want to run in, just pick the outfit that fits what you hunt best and then make it work for everything else. OH, if I had to do my entire outfit over again, I definitely would have an open center, no seats. You can put any seat you want into the boat, but the ability to move around and balance your load is much easier with open concept vs one with built in seats like mine. Good luck :fingerhead:
[/quote]

I have owned five hunting boats since the early 2000s. Three of them designed primarily for mud motors. The biggest thing I have learned is to keep the interior layout boat as open as possible if your primary intended use is hunting. The tendency with the first custom boat you order is to fill up the boat with gun and gear boxes / cubbies. You will learn after experience that the open boat holds more decoy bags for your run to the hunt area and gives you more flexible space when hunting out of a boat blind. My first custom boat had dual gun boxes. My current boat has only one, which holds my first aid gear, tools, life jackets and sometime,s guns. Bench seats are absolutely useless in a hunting boat. Our hunting chairs are mounted to four-legged swivel stands and can be placed anywhere in the boat. If I am going to be hunting out of layout blinds and not my boat blind, I don't even bring chairs. You can put seat base sockets in fishing locations, but my current boat does not have them because I don't fish out of it. My boat has a large elevated front deck that would be plenty big as a casting platform.

I've had camo painted boats before but have come to the conclusion that other than being eye candy for others to admire at the boat launch or gas station, this is a waste of money. My current boat is painted a dark OD green.

I prefer a dead smooth flat bottom boat for running skinny water. No crimps or keels. You have to exercise a bit more care when wheeling the boat into a hard turn at speed because the potential is there for it to break away. This is easily remedied with the proper driving technique. We run up to 12 miles one way over big water rivers and lakes to get to some spots, so it's not like a flat bottom boat won't do well on long runs over wavy, windy water. Or rivers with "sporty" current, twists and bends.

The notion that there is no boat that will do it all perfectly is true. The advice to select a boat for what you do 80% of the time is dead on. I have learned this the hard way. I had a sweet custom mod-V with 6 degree hull angle built for me once. Beautiful boat and a drier ride in big waves. But didn't work worth a darn in the mud and shallows we run (or ran) half of the time.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby speczilla » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:18 am

HaydenHunter wrote:
goosepond wrote:
As I am sure many are saying, there is no perfect motor/boat combo for everything you want to run in, just pick the outfit that fits what you hunt best and then make it work for everything else. OH, if I had to do my entire outfit over again, I definitely would have an open center, no seats. You can put any seat you want into the boat, but the ability to move around and balance your load is much easier with open concept vs one with built in seats like mine.

Good luck :fingerhead:


I have owned five hunting boats since the early 2000s. Three of them designed primarily for mud motors. The biggest thing I have learned is to keep the boat as open as possible. The tendency with the first custom boat you order is to fill up the boat with gun and gear boxes / cubbies. You will learn after experience that the open boat holds more decoy bags for your run to the hunt area and gives you more flexible space when hunting out of a boat blind. My first custom boat had dual gun boxes. My current boat has only one, which hold my first aid gear, tools, life jackets and sometimes guns. Bench seats are absolutely useless in a hunting boat. Our hunting chairs are mounted to a four-legged stand and can be placed anywhere in the boat. If I am going to be hunting out of my layout blinds and not my boat blind, I don't even bring chairs. You can put seat base sockets in fishing locations, but my current boat does not have them because I don't fish out of it. My boat has a large elevated front deck that would be plenty big as a casting platform.

I've had camo painted boats before but have come to the conclusion that other than being eye candy at the boat launch or gas station, this is a waste of money. My current boat is painted a dark OD green.

I prefer a dead smooth flat bottom boat for running skinny water. No crimps or keels. You have to exercise a bit more care when wheeling the boat into a hard turn at speed because the potential is there for it to break away. This is easily remedied with the proper driving technique. We run up to 12 miles one way over big water rivers and lakes to get to some spots, so it's not like a flat bottom boat won't do long runs over wavy, windy water.

The notion that there is no boat that will do it all perfectly is true. The advice to select a boat for what you do 80% of the time is dead on. I have learned this the hard way. I had a sweet custom mod-V with 6 degree hull angle built for me once. Beautiful boat and a drier ride in big waves. But didn't work worth a darn in the mud and shallows we run (or ran) half of the time.[/quote]

I agree 100% with all of this.

As to fishing, I will say that a jet foot would probably be the better choice as it is easier to drive and quieter than a mud motor. Also if you plan to troll, a jet will be preferable even if using a trolling motor. I fished out of my mud boat but it was more challenging than an outboard. It does depend upon what fishing you plan on doing. If you plan on sitting still and dunking bait or throwing lures in one place then the mud boat won't be bad. But if you plan on trolling, etc then an outboard would be better.

As many have already said figure out what you will be doing most and let that be your guide. If you are going to use the boat to fish more I would go with a jet foot.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby goosepond » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:56 am

Everyone is correct. It is up to you to choose what your most use is for and go for it. As I originally said, I switch my MM out when I am not hunting to an outboard which works for me where I fish. I don't fish the Snake only reservoirs so mine works. I agree with Hayden, next boat will be open with flat front for standing if I need or want to. I will still stay with a MM, probably long tail just because of what I do with it. I do see more jets on the snake for fishing, but, I know of 6 in upper valley that use surface drives for both hunting and fishing and get by great. A couple have trolling motors on back, a couple mounted on front that is why the flat front platform. So any can be modified to what you want. As everyone has said though, pick out your most use and go for it and make it work for everything else the best you can. Again, good luck and no one is going to chastise you for what you pick since it works for you.

Yea, a topic no one got their panties in a wad just one hell of a great discussion. I love it, way to go guys :beer:
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:51 pm

One other note on boats.
As you can see in pictures I have posted of my small 14 footer, I have never felt I needed a larger boat on the Snake river here in the valley, but for all around use, you'll sure be wanting one several feet longer and one with greater width as well.
I have trolled Ririe, Gem lake, Oakley, and American Falls, but I can tell you (For those of you knowing those reservoirs) when I troll American Falls Reservoir, I do so close to shore, I always keep one eye on the Southwest horizon, and at the slightest sign of a dark cloud, anything in the way of a breeze starting up, I am back at the boat launch. The other reservoirs are narrow enough I can be to either shore in thirty seconds to one minute, so I can troll the best of them for the fish I want that don't live in the Snake river in numbers enough to target, and do so confidently.
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:58 pm

speczilla wrote:
HaydenHunter wrote:
goosepond wrote:
As I am sure many are saying, there is no perfect motor/boat combo for everything you want to run in, just pick the outfit that fits what you hunt best and then make it work for everything else. OH, if I had to do my entire outfit over again, I definitely would have an open center, no seats. You can put any seat you want into the boat, but the ability to move around and balance your load is much easier with open concept vs one with built in seats like mine.

Good luck :fingerhead:


I have owned five hunting boats since the early 2000s. Three of them designed primarily for mud motors. The biggest thing I have learned is to keep the boat as open as possible. The tendency with the first custom boat you order is to fill up the boat with gun and gear boxes / cubbies. You will learn after experience that the open boat holds more decoy bags for your run to the hunt area and gives you more flexible space when hunting out of a boat blind. My first custom boat had dual gun boxes. My current boat has only one, which hold my first aid gear, tools, life jackets and sometimes guns. Bench seats are absolutely useless in a hunting boat. Our hunting chairs are mounted to a four-legged stand and can be placed anywhere in the boat. If I am going to be hunting out of my layout blinds and not my boat blind, I don't even bring chairs. You can put seat base sockets in fishing locations, but my current boat does not have them because I don't fish out of it. My boat has a large elevated front deck that would be plenty big as a casting platform.

I've had camo painted boats before but have come to the conclusion that other than being eye candy at the boat launch or gas station, this is a waste of money. My current boat is painted a dark OD green.

I prefer a dead smooth flat bottom boat for running skinny water. No crimps or keels. You have to exercise a bit more care when wheeling the boat into a hard turn at speed because the potential is there for it to break away. This is easily remedied with the proper driving technique. We run up to 12 miles one way over big water rivers and lakes to get to some spots, so it's not like a flat bottom boat won't do long runs over wavy, windy water.

The notion that there is no boat that will do it all perfectly is true. The advice to select a boat for what you do 80% of the time is dead on. I have learned this the hard way. I had a sweet custom mod-V with 6 degree hull angle built for me once. Beautiful boat and a drier ride in big waves. But didn't work worth a darn in the mud and shallows we run (or ran) half of the time.


I agree 100% with all of this.

As to fishing, I will say that a jet foot would probably be the better choice as it is easier to drive and quieter than a mud motor. Also if you plan to troll, a jet will be preferable even if using a trolling motor. I fished out of my mud boat but it was more challenging than an outboard. It does depend upon what fishing you plan on doing. If you plan on sitting still and dunking bait or throwing lures in one place then the mud boat won't be bad. But if you plan on trolling, etc then an outboard would be better.

As many have already said figure out what you will be doing most and let that be your guide. If you are going to use the boat to fish more I would go with a jet foot.[/quote]

This is all true, except I think a jet is to hard to steer to troll with. Unless it’s a tiller then it’s a bit easier. But a console jet trolling does not steer at all!!!

You can always do what I have thought about doing ...buy a jet boat run it for a season. Then sell or trade the motor for a surface drive on the same boat and see what you think. I have thought about it for my boat.

But most likely I’ll just stay with my jet because it works for me for the 90% of what I need to do.


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Tenner » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:14 pm

I have a line on a good duck boat! 14ft 72” beam. Flat bottom with a 20hp long shaft mud motor. $3400. Comes with decoys too. Message me for details. I am helping a guy sell it


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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby gOOsedOWn! » Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:57 pm

Wondering if the mood has changed in the last couple years? I am running a 23 hp LT on a 1648 Mod V. Not impressed with the speed of this. I have one guy telling me to stay away from Surface drives, everybody he knows that has one, don't like them. He is also telling me to go with an outboard prop on a jack plate for a good all around boat. I have serious concerns about this after reading this thread. I also have serious concerns about running a jet in the ice. I would be running the river from Palisades down to AFR. Fishing, hunting, bowfishing etc. Looking to repower and possibly bump up in length/capacity.
I get more when I lay down.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Fsbirdhouse » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:19 pm

Well, just dropped in for a quick update.
I am no longer a boat owner, sold mine to son, but I'll still be fishing all the usual places with him and friends. Never did use mine for duck hunting, but have a pretty nice water hole I can drive to just feet of blind location. Looking to increase my field hunts as well. We'll see how that works out.
If you were going to try to duplicate this in a field hunt, how would you start? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysAMXWCVOkA
The answer is at minute 1:30..................I'm almost there!
So the words Fall and Autumn are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Whitefront » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:59 am

gOOsedOWn! wrote:Wondering if the mood has changed in the last couple years? I am running a 23 hp LT on a 1648 Mod V. Not impressed with the speed of this. I have one guy telling me to stay away from Surface drives, everybody he knows that has one, don't like them. He is also telling me to go with an outboard prop on a jack plate for a good all around boat. I have serious concerns about this after reading this thread. I also have serious concerns about running a jet in the ice. I would be running the river from Palisades down to AFR. Fishing, hunting, bowfishing etc. Looking to repower and possibly bump up in length/capacity.

I have run just about every type of motor at one time or another. There is no perfect boat/motor combo. There is only what is best for certain conditions and bodies of water. ST's work best in shallow muddy soft bottoms with lots of veggies. Jets work best in clean gravel bottoms as long as there's not a lot of ice and crap to clog your intake. Props on a jackplate, which was my most current set-up, excels in most shallow water conditions while maintaining good power and load-carrying, reverse and manueverability. Put a skeg/prop protector on it and it can be used in many locations/applications quite well and IMO, is the most versatile. I have run this set-up for years on the Snake between OR and TF. Only places it doesn't excel is soft muddy muck and long hauls through very shallow(6-8") rocky/gravel bottoms. With the hydraulic jack plate, you can trim up and motor through some of that stuff but you're not gonna be able to run WOT. Even a ST though doesn't excel in those conditions. I've run with friends in their mud boats on the Snake through stretches like that and they are chewing through props and bouncing on bottom just like an outboard might.
So, the answer to your question is--it depends. You pretty much have to choose a set-up for the application you're gonna spend the majority of your time and realize there are compromises potentially in other areas.
I don't know the area where you spend most of your time very well so I can't say what set-up is best for that area but I can tell you that you'd likely be happier with just about anything over a 23 HP LT. :lol3: That seems awful underpowered for that boat and you'll see a lot more maneuverability with an OB.

Incidentally, the prop/jackplate set-up that I've used for years here is for sale in the Classifieds if interested. Only reason I'm selling it is that I purchased property that I am developing for hunting and won't need to freelance on the public areas as much anymore.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:59 pm

Whitefront,

After 15 years of running mud motors exclusively, I got an offer I could not pass up on a 2012 Merc 50 HP EFI 4-stroke tiller outboard. I ran it last summer and early into the 2019 season before our water dropped to winter pool levels. I then switched back to my Prodrive. I now have the outboard on the boat for the summer. I gotta confess, I really like driving an outboard versus wrassling with a mud motor, although the MM is truly more of an all-terrain motor. We get weeds and ice late in the season to go along with muck and lower water levels in places.

The last couple of years we have hunted a river that can get shallow and sporty, with current flowing over gravel bars. When we pick our way carefully, we have no problem navigating. When we make a mistake, the ProDrive is dragging on a gravel bar with the stainless steel prop clacking against the bottom.

I have recently been fantasizing about putting a hydraulic jackplate on the back of the boat and running the outboard through the season. In your opinion is that realistic? I no longer hunt places where I have to chew through long mud runs and I can generally avoid most weeds with a little effort. It seems that with a jackplate I could raise the motor to operate in the shallows. Does your skeg / prop guard affect performance? What about taking in cooling water when the motor is raised high? I have an 18 foot boat, so I don't think it necessary to have float pods on the back of the boat like you do, but am I missing something? Are they necessary for a conversion to a sometimes high-riding jack plate outboard?

By the way, your boat looks like a pretty decent deal for what you are offering (if it isn't beat up on the bottom). I am surprised you haven't sold it.

Thanks in advance for your reply.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Whitefront » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:37 am

I am surprised the boat hasn't sold yet either. It's a pretty good deal for that set-up. In regards to your questions:

I ran a PD on an 18' boat for years before switching back to this rig. No question that the MM excels in the mud and veggies which was where 90% of my hunting took place when I owned it. But when I moved and my hunting digs changed, I switched back to the regular outboard with the jackplate. As you said, running an OB is much nicer to drive. Reverse is better, it's quieter, more fuel-efficient, and you can fish with it.
No question that lower winter flows can be a challenge if you pick the wrong line or don't know where you're going but they can be just as much of a challenge with the MM as well. Tunnel jets excel in some of these conditions but those have their drawbacks as well.
I don't know what rivers or lakes you run up there and what the conditions are throughout the year so it's hard for me to say how realistic it is for you to convert to the OB and jackplate but I can tell you that I have never regretted switching back from my PD rig. If I was spending most of my time in mud flats and heavy veg, it might be different. But for shallow rivers and lakes with gravel bottom, the MM wasn't really made to excel in those conditions.
The skeg protector does slow the motor down slightly. I've never GPS's it with and without under identical conditions and load so I can't say exactly how much but I imagine around 2-3 MPH. It's easily removable if you didn't want it during high pool for more speed. I keep it on though for piece of mind but I primarily used this boat for hunting as I had another boat set up for fishing.
I have never had a problem with getting cooling water into the engine when trimmed up. If it's trimmed up above the water intake, you're not going anywhere because the prop will essentially be out of the water as well.
As far as the pods, they were already on the boat when I bought it. My boat is only 16' and by the time I have motor, jackplate, battery, gas tank and me aft in the boat, I imagine it would "squat" a little. Years ago, I ran a 1648 WarEagle with a 40 HP Yamaha and no jackplate. Hole shots in the shallows were difficult in that boat. But I didn't have the ability to trim the motor up either because I didn't have the jackplate. I had to tilt it up which drove the ass-end down even more until I could get up on step. One advantage of the pods that I never realized how much I would use is they make great steps for getting in and out of the boat for both me and the dog and they make it easy to reach out to the prop if you ever have to clean crap off it.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Whitefront » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:40 am

One more thing, IMO the OB set-up does better in ice conditions because of the ability to use reverse. Not sure what MM you have but the earlier models didn't have reverse and If you plowed into an iced up area and couldn't go any further, you were hosed with the MM. With an OB, you simply back out.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:42 pm

Whitefront wrote:One more thing, IMO the OB set-up does better in ice conditions because of the ability to use reverse. Not sure what MM you have but the earlier models didn't have reverse and If you plowed into an iced up area and couldn't go any further, you were hosed with the MM. With an OB, you simply back out.


I run a Prodrive with the Full Power Reverse, which is not instantaneous (you have to ratchet the drive 180 degrees) but is truly the four wheel drive of reverses. I have gone places in reverse which I could not go forward in.

I am only on my second season of having the outboard and the mud motor and I am already getting tired of swapping them out between seasons.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby Whitefront » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:17 am

I ran a FPR PD as well and while I would agree that it is one of the more powerful "Reverse" mechanisms in MM's, it was still a PITA to use. Simple things like backing off the trailer, using reverse to make a 3-pt turn in tight quarters, backing up to pick up a decoy or a cripple, and backing out of a hide were not simple flips of a lever. If you're hunting heavy veggies and mud that you have to back yourself out of, it is the strongest system out there. But in the 7 yrs that I owned my PD, the only time I had to use it that way was when I was out messing around and testing the limits of my boat. Generally speaking, if you're in stuff thick enough that you need that much power to reverse out of, you're in stuff that's too thick for hunting or fishing too. For most everyday applications, it simply wasn't that useful or versatile. The newer Auto FPR makes it a little easier I imagine but that came out a few yrs after I had mine and I wasn't gonna pay $1500 for the upgrade as it just didn't make sense for my applications.
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Re: SE ID Boat of Choice

Postby HaydenHunter » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:25 pm

Whitefront wrote:The newer Auto FPR makes it a little easier I imagine but that came out a few yrs after I had mine and I wasn't gonna pay $1500 for the upgrade as it just didn't make sense for my applications.
I am with you on that. No way I will spend to upgrade to hydraulic FPR on my 12 year old motor. If I was to order a new Prodrive, it would be with the hydraulic auto FPR.
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