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Football

Postby Botiz630 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:21 am

I think they/we are stuck. Who would you get to replace him? There aren’t any high caliber candidates who are going to see the Michigan job as desirable.

It’s either stick with Jim or start over with someone early in their head coaching career looking to make the leap.

I’m real glad Don Brown is gone and I’m looking forward to seeing what JJ can do.
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:33 pm

What titz said. What choice did they have?

Titz sent me something interesting the other day... In Michigan, college athletes can now get paid. Maybe they are hoping keeping Jim gives them a leg up with recruiting next year with being the only major football team who can provide players income to boot. But even so, who else could they get? If they fire another coach, who would want the job? Minus winning the big games, he hasn't done that bad. He's not as good as Lloyd Carr, but he's the closest thing since.
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:46 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:Minus winning the big games, he hasn't done that bad. He's not as good as Lloyd Carr, but he's the closest thing since.


The big games assume you won the small ones too. Content winning the small ones doesn't seem like Michigan football.

Jim Harbaugh:

Career Record: 10 Years, 78-43, .645 Win% (at major schools), 49-22 at Michigan.

0-5 against Ohio State, 3-3 against Michigan State, 1-4 in bowl games, 1-8 against top 10 ranked teams.

Bowl Record: 7 Games, 2-5, .286 Win% (at major schools)

Not picking on Blue but this is not a great record. I'd think the school would be desperate to replace him. Gotta be killing University Alum donations. Lots of great upcoming coaches, cut bait and run.

JMHO!!! :beer:
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:49 pm

Rat Creek wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:They need to restructure the playoff and recruiting rules or this will be the way it is for a long time. It will just compound with time.


Maybe start with a salary cap. :yes:

This is a tough issue because success breeds success, and a winning culture is infectious. Whether a sports team or a company, you can feel it when it is cultural. No MBA can create a strategy for it. Alabama has it. OSU has it. But yesterday, Alabama had the best players, and they showed up.

And I was asleep long before the super spreader celebration ensued. :yes:


True, but right now there are 5 teams getting all of the 5 star recruits and most of the top 4 star recruits. This is because there are only 5 teams with realistic hopes of winning a national championship: AL, OSU, OK, Clemson and maybe ND. No other team has a realistic chance at being in the top 4 at least not more than a one random year.

Michigan only got 1 five star recruit this year. AL and OSU got 5 (or 6) five star recruits, each. How could they compete? Everyone else is working with high school teams and AL is working with a Pro team every year. On off years you will have a Trever Lawrence sign with Cincinnati and they have a chance when he is a Junior.

I am a small government man and don't like regulations, but right now AL and OSU have the best teams and will continue to have the best teams almost every year because they happen to have Nick Sabin when the BCS changed and OSU won the first tournament. Back when there was no playoff and polls were used to pick the best team the distribution of talent was more equal. Or maybe I am wrong. Sure seems that as long as all of the top talent goes to 5 teams, no one else will have a shot at it. The only way I can think to stop that is make the brackets bigger and have 8 or 16 teams, that way more colleges can recruit top talent.
Last edited by WoodyWhiffingMG on Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:55 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:Minus winning the big games, he hasn't done that bad. He's not as good as Lloyd Carr, but he's the closest thing since.


The big games assume you won the small ones too. Content winning the small ones doesn't seem like Michigan football.

Jim Harbaugh:

Career Record: 10 Years, 78-43, .645 Win% (at major schools), 49-22 at Michigan.

0-5 against Ohio State, 3-3 against Michigan State, 1-4 in bowl games, 1-8 against top 10 ranked teams.

Bowl Record: 7 Games, 2-5, .286 Win% (at major schools)

Not picking on Blue but this is not a great record. I'd think the school would be desperate to replace him. Gotta be killing University Alum donations. Lots of great upcoming coaches, cut bait and run.

JMHO!!! :beer:


It's not good. I want a different coach, but even with a new coach how do they attract talent?
A good coaching staff can only make up for so much. Look at ND. They have 0 five star recruits and only 14 four star recruits. They make up for this in fighting spirit and play calling, but that's why I listed them as "maybe" they got stomped by Clemson when they had a good quarter back and while they keep making the top 4 they always get crushed in the playoff.
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:00 pm

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:It's not good. I want a different coach, but even with a new coach how do they attract talent?


Winning/dynamic coaches attract talent. Even assistants moving to head. UM has enough money to afford it and lots of rich history. It's not a 1 year turn around for sure but leaving Jim there is like treading water at best on all fronts.
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:01 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:It's not good. I want a different coach, but even with a new coach how do they attract talent?


Winning/dynamic coaches attract talent. Even assistants moving to head. UM has enough money to afford it and lots of rich history. It's not a 1 year turn around for sure but leaving Jim there is like treading water at best on all fronts.
Ever see the Cradle of coaches from MAC (Miami) University?

The program's largest cohort are football coaches Earl Blaik, Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Bill Arnsparger, George Little, Weeb Ewbank, Sid Gillman, Ara Parseghian, Bo Schembechler, John Pont, Carmen Cozza, Bill Mallory, Jim Tressel, Joe Novak, Ron Zook, Dick Crum, Paul Dietzel, Bill Narduzzi, Randy Walker, John Harbaugh, Nobby Wirkowski, Gary Moeller, Larry Smith, Dick Tomey, Terry Hoeppner, and Sean McVay.
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:27 am

Look at the diversity of outcomes before and after the BCS/CFP.
Before, any team out of the top 25 colleges might win the national championship. Starting in 1998 with the BCS the pool of potential winners began to dwindle. and by 2014 when the CFP started it dwindled to 3. Yep there are outliers like LSU and Florida State. But if you are not Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State... good luck.

2020 Alabama CFP
2019 LSU CFP
2018 Clemson CFP
2017 Alabama CFP
2016 Clemson CFP
2015 Alabama CFP
2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 LSU BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 LSU, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:04 am

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:Look at the diversity of outcomes before and after the BCS/CFP.
Before, any team out of the top 25 colleges might win the national championship. Starting in 1998 with the BCS the pool of potential winners began to dwindle. and by 2014 when the CFP started it dwindled to 3. Yep there are outliers like LSU and Florida State. But if you are not Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State... good luck.

2020 Alabama CFP
2019 LSU CFP
2018 Clemson CFP
2017 Alabama CFP
2016 Clemson CFP
2015 Alabama CFP
2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 LSU BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 LSU, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI


It's slanted for sure and totally agree an 8 team playoff might help. Be more interesting for sure.

Are you saying the CFP killed recruiting for every school but?
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 am

HNTFSH wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:Look at the diversity of outcomes before and after the BCS/CFP.
Before, any team out of the top 25 colleges might win the national championship. Starting in 1998 with the BCS the pool of potential winners began to dwindle. and by 2014 when the CFP started it dwindled to 3. Yep there are outliers like LSU and Florida State. But if you are not Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State... good luck.

2020 Alabama CFP
2019 LSU CFP
2018 Clemson CFP
2017 Alabama CFP
2016 Clemson CFP
2015 Alabama CFP
2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 LSU BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 LSU, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI


It's slanted for sure and totally agree an 8 team playoff might help. Be more interesting for sure.

Are you saying the CFP killed recruiting for every school but?


In a way, yes. There is no denying that Urban Meyer and Nick Sabin are the very best and used the new situation to build programs that others could not and that is a skill that should be respected. They would have had the best teams regardless, but they would not between them recruit 50% of the top recruits if the BCS and CFP had not been created. Another coach could pop up and build a successful program at another school, but they have to first manage to beat two teams with pro level talent with their high school team before they have a shot at recruiting top talent. Look at LSU, went undefeated and then failed to recruit the talent to keep it going. It's just a stacked deck. Really none of that is important. What has to be answered is what is the goal. Does the NCAA want to create a system where legacies of success build teams that are unbeatable or do they want a competitive atmosphere that is entertaining for the masses?
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:01 am

WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
WoodyWhiffingMG wrote:Look at the diversity of outcomes before and after the BCS/CFP.
Before, any team out of the top 25 colleges might win the national championship. Starting in 1998 with the BCS the pool of potential winners began to dwindle. and by 2014 when the CFP started it dwindled to 3. Yep there are outliers like LSU and Florida State. But if you are not Alabama, Clemson, or Ohio State... good luck.

2020 Alabama CFP
2019 LSU CFP
2018 Clemson CFP
2017 Alabama CFP
2016 Clemson CFP
2015 Alabama CFP
2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 LSU BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 LSU, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
1998 Tennessee BCS
1997 Michigan, Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/ESPN
1996 Florida AP, FWAA, NFF,USA/CNN
1995 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1994 Nebraska AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1993 Florida St. AP, FWAA,NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1992 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1991 Washington, Miami (Fla.) FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI,AP
1990 Colorado, Georgia Tech FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, AP, UPI
1989 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1988 Notre Dame AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1987 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1986 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1985 Oklahoma AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1984 Brigham Young AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1983 Miami (Fla.) AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1982 Penn State AP, FWAA, NFF, USA/CNN, UPI
1981 Clemson AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1980 Georgia AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI
1979 Alabama AP, FWAA, NFF, UPI


It's slanted for sure and totally agree an 8 team playoff might help. Be more interesting for sure.

Are you saying the CFP killed recruiting for every school but?


In a way, yes. There is no denying that Urban Meyer and Nick Sabin are the very best and used the new situation to build programs that others could not and that is a skill that should be respected. They would have had the best teams regardless, but they would not between them recruit 50% of the top recruits if the BCS and CFP had not been created. Another coach could pop up and build a successful program at another school, but they have to first manage to beat two teams with pro level talent with their high school team before they have a shot at recruiting top talent. Look at LSU, went undefeated and then failed to recruit the talent to keep it going. It's just a stacked deck. Really none of that is important. What has to be answered is what is the goal. Does the NCAA want to create a system where legacies of success build teams that are unbeatable or do they want a competitive atmosphere that is entertaining for the masses?


Bear with me...how does the CFP control those outcomes? Are you saying the visibility and opportunity in an 8 game play-off would lessen the opportunity for a dynasty scenario?
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Re: Football

Postby WoodyWhiffingMG » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:45 pm

There are 4 or 5 schools that give you the best chance of getting NFL 1st round attention.
If you are a 5 star high school recruit will you go to Michigan or would you go to OSU? If you want to get drafted in the first round.

This is not question of dynasties. There will always be dynasties, they just don't last 2 decades.

My thought is the expanded playoff would spread out the attention to more schools giving them a better chance at 4 and 5 star recruits. Again the question is what the NCAA is trying to do. Not me. I care to some degree. The only sport I cared to watch in the past was college football and in the last 7 or 8 years I have lost most of my interest. It feels like forgone conclusion before the season starts.
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Re: Football

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:43 pm

If they cut the number of TV commercials down by 1/2 to 3,000 per game, there would be enough time for an 8 team play-off. :fingerhead:

It's always: follow the money.
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