PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

[Paul26]

FROM NCWRC:

What do you think about allowing migratory bird hunting on Sunday?

Author: Ryan Kennemur/Tuesday, December 05, 2017/Categories: Blog, Hunting

What do you think about allowing migratory bird hunting on Sunday?

The N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission is seeking your opinion on migratory bird hunting on Sunday. Currently Sunday hunting for migratory birds, including waterfowl, is prohibited. The Commission urges you to attend a public meeting, see listing below, and share your opinion.

The Commission has hired an independent, non-biased research firm, Responsive Management, to conduct a statewide study on attitudes toward hunting migratory birds on Sunday and develop a report outlining its social and economic impacts. The North Carolina General Assembly requires that the Commission complete a research study on the biological, economic, and social impacts of hunting birds on Sunday to the General Assembly no later than March 1, 2018.

Participate in the study by attending one of the four scheduled public meetings. Each meeting will be held from 6:00-9:00 p.m. in the following locations:

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 12
GRAHAM, NC
Alamance Community College, 1247 Jimmie Kerr Rd, Graham, NC 27253
Entrance 1 from Jimmie Kerr Rd. Use parking lot H. Building B Classroom 204 (2nd Floor).

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 13
JACKSONVILLE, NC
Jacksonville Conference Center, 800 New Bridge Street, Jacksonville, NC 28540

WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 13
HICKORY, NC
Hickory Metro Convention Center, 1960 13th Av. Drive SE, Hickory, NC 28602

THURSDAY, DECEMBER 14
COLUMBIA, NC
Tyrrell County Center/NC Cooperative Extension Building, 407 Martha Street, Columbia, NC 27925

If you would like to participate in the study and are unable to attend a meeting, please visit this webpage starting on Monday, Dec. 11. On that day, a link will go live that will allow you to comment and, if interested, participate in a virtual town hall.

[OUTATIME]

I like the idea I can hunt twice on a weekend, but I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed too but a few times and that would end up making the season shorter if I'm correct and you never know when the ducks will get her so having a long season gives us a better chance to hunt the better days when he ducks are here.

[WingsCupped]

I'll trade the four days in October for 4 Sundays in January

[Paul26]

outatime: I say trade Wed for Sunday. Lejeune did this for decades

[CatFan]

I'm hoping to get to one of the hearing. Yes, it will decrease the span of hunting on the calendar but in practical terms it will increase the days afield for most of us. Or at least, let us choose which weekend day we want to go. I doubt I'd be able to get up and go both Sat and Sun anymore but if the weather on Sunday was more to my liking this would give me the option.

I agree with the sentiment that they can have those 4 days in October back. I usually go out on that Sat but mostly just to say I went. There are, I think 13 Sundays in Nov, Dec and Jan. The Fed sets the number of days that migratory birds can be hunted, which varies based on your reagion, and leaves it up to the states to decide the specific dates. I think they also stated that the season can't start before a certain data and has to end before a certain date. And, I thought that states that don't allow Sunday hunting could omit those dates from the total number of days in the season. If one buys into the statement that birds need some day of rest (and I don't FWIW) then the idea of not allowing hunting on Wednesdays or any other week day would be fine with me as long as those days didn't apply towards our seasonal allotment. Heck, they could take out TWO consecutive weekdays if the wanted to and that would be OK. But honestly speaking, at least in my areas, the weekday pressure is so minimal I doubt this would have an impact.

I've thought about this, along with the game lands that only allow waterfowl hunting 3 days a week, quite a bit lately. I know it is done to limit pressure but I suspect it has the opposite affect. Consider this. Say you are free to hunt during the week and you have to hunt game lands. Well if you go on Tuesday you may only have one option. And, so does everyone else that want so hunt Tuesday. So, I might drive past a spot on Jordan Lake to get to a spot on Falls Lake. Me and every other duck hunter. If both were open it would spread us out more. I think that would be easier on ducks than flying into pockets of intense activity. Monday they fly to Jordan and get shot at so they go to Falls. Then on Tuesday they get shot at there so they fly back to Jordan where the get shot at on Wednesday. Now, I am sure it is not that simple but if we were all spread out I think the ducks would have better chances to find safe places to hide. It also for this reason I wish the would flood all the impoundments every year. Give the ducks more safe places year after year and maybe well have more in the area. But that's a different discussion.

[HydeMarsh]

I like the idea I can hunt twice on a weekend, but I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed too but a few times and that would end up making the season shorter if I'm correct and you never know when the ducks will get her so having a long season gives us a better chance to hunt the better days when he ducks are here.

who would not "allow" you to hunt twice on a weekend?

[OUTATIME]

Good points and Yea I agree with taking out the 4 day season and taking Wednesday would also be fine with me and I usually go to church on Sunday but I’m happy as long there is a season

[valeflyfish47]

I like the idea I can hunt twice on a weekend, but I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed too but a few times and that would end up making the season shorter if I'm correct and you never know when the ducks will get her so having a long season gives us a better chance to hunt the better days when he ducks are here.

who would not "allow" you to hunt twice on a weekend?

Im speculating here but he might mean the wife. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[OUTATIME]

I like the idea I can hunt twice on a weekend, but I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed too but a few times and that would end up making the season shorter if I'm correct and you never know when the ducks will get her so having a long season gives us a better chance to hunt the better days when he ducks are here.

who would not "allow" you to hunt twice on a weekend?

Im speculating here but he might mean the wife. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Well my hunting partners wife, sadley

[bigsprig]

Couple of comments on above- for those that think closing on a week day would be better- that is not an option in the federal framework. North Carolina and a few other states are specifically granted the right to close Sunday hunting only without that being seen as a "segment"

From the Federal Register 2017- ATLANTIC FLYWAY

DUCKS, MERGANSERS, AND COOTS

Outside Dates: Between the Saturday nearest September 24 (September 23) and the last Sunday in January (January 28).

Hunting Seasons and Duck Limits: 60 days.

Zoning and Split Seasons: Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia may split their seasons into three segments; Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont may select hunting seasons by zones and may split their seasons into two segments in each zone.

[CatFan]

Bigsprig, I had seen that before but I thought it listed some specific exemption for states that don't allow Sunday hunting. Interesting that is says states MAY split the season into multiple segments. I thought it was a requirement.

[Mallard Cutter]

I'd be in favor of giving up that Oct season. It's certainly not the be all end all for me. 99% of the time it's way too hot and most of the birds that are around will still be here in November

[Mohouse]

Second hand info but i heard that no matter the WRC's decision that they make on this issue.....if Sunday hunting is passed, hunting with a firearm between the hours of 9:30am-12:30pm will still be prohibited on Sundays on public and private land (except controlled shooting preserves) because of the state law that is already in place..............anybody have any insight on this?

[CatFan]

Second hand info but i heard that no matter the WRC's decision that they make on this issue.....if Sunday hunting is passed, hunting with a firearm between the hours of 9:30am-12:30pm will still be prohibited on Sundays on public and private land (except controlled shooting preserves) because of the state law that is already in place..............anybody have any insight on this?

What law is that? Do you mean the law on Sunday hunting or something else.

[CatFan]

Second hand info but i heard that no matter the WRC's decision that they make on this issue.....if Sunday hunting is passed, hunting with a firearm between the hours of 9:30am-12:30pm will still be prohibited on Sundays on public and private land (except controlled shooting preserves) because of the state law that is already in place..............anybody have any insight on this?

What law is that? Do you mean the law on Sunday hunting or something else.

Looked it up, its the Outdoor Heritage Enhanced law. It also you can't hunting within 500 yards of a church. Now, as far as I can tell you can shoot guns all you want within that 500 yards you just can't shoot them at animals. SMH. It lifted the restriction of hunting in within 500 yards of someone else's house (which effectively closed hunting in many places) and it appears to have lifted the restriction on hunting in counties with more than 700,000 residents.

So, I would guess that you are correct.

[Mohouse]

Second hand info but i heard that no matter the WRC's decision that they make on this issue.....if Sunday hunting is passed, hunting with a firearm between the hours of 9:30am-12:30pm will still be prohibited on Sundays on public and private land (except controlled shooting preserves) because of the state law that is already in place..............anybody have any insight on this?

What law is that? Do you mean the law on Sunday hunting or something else.

Looked it up, its the Outdoor Heritage Enhanced law. It also you can't hunting within 500 yards of a church. Now, as far as I can tell you can shoot guns all you want within that 500 yards you just can't shoot them at animals. SMH. It lifted the restriction of hunting in within 500 yards of someone else's house (which effectively closed hunting in many places) and it appears to have lifted the restriction on hunting in counties with more than 700,000 residents.

So, I would guess that you are correct.

Ok, just wanted to make sure i was reading that correct. If Sunday hunting is passed (at least for now) hunters would be able to hunt from 30 min before sunrise till 9:30am, have to quit hunting at that point and could resume hunting at 12:30pm. I don't know if all the pro Sunday hunters know that but is a piece of info that I don't think a lot of guys either know about or are considering with the push for Sunday hunting.

[CatFan]

Second hand info but i heard that no matter the WRC's decision that they make on this issue.....if Sunday hunting is passed, hunting with a firearm between the hours of 9:30am-12:30pm will still be prohibited on Sundays on public and private land (except controlled shooting preserves) because of the state law that is already in place..............anybody have any insight on this?

What law is that? Do you mean the law on Sunday hunting or something else.

Looked it up, its the Outdoor Heritage Enhanced law. It also you can't hunting within 500 yards of a church. Now, as far as I can tell you can shoot guns all you want within that 500 yards you just can't shoot them at animals. SMH. It lifted the restriction of hunting in within 500 yards of someone else's house (which effectively closed hunting in many places) and it appears to have lifted the restriction on hunting in counties with more than 700,000 residents.

So, I would guess that you are correct.

Ok, just wanted to make sure i was reading that correct. If Sunday hunting is passed (at least for now) hunters would be able to hunt from 30 min before sunrise till 9:30am, have to quit hunting at that point and could resume hunting at 12:30pm. I don't know if all the pro Sunday hunters know that but is a piece of info that I don't think a lot of guys either know about or are considering with the push for Sunday hunting.

Well, hunting is currently allowed on Sunday with the exception of migratory birds. All of them, not just waterfowl. What we is being discussing is to remove the restriction on migratory birds. The most recent law allowed for the wildlife commission to study and consider it. So, we're not talking about changing any laws here just regulation that prohibit hunting migratory birds.

[creekcaptain]

I'm not necessarily for Sunday hunting, but if the restriction to shoot from 9:30 -12:30 is true, that would really be a waste of a day as part of our 60 days. I guess you can hunt some woodies early and go home, but most guys can do that before work anyway during the week. I'd hate to travel to have to quit by 9:30. There's always something else in there they don't tell everyone or know themselves. They have to pass it to see what's in it.

I got sent an email questionnaire and they called me to participate in some forum and were going to pay me $75 for my time. Anybody else got an email with like 7 questions? I answered the questionnaire, but declined on the participation.

[CatFan]

Interesting point about stopping at 9:30 but I still see it as an improvement over our current situation. Perhaps it puts is a little closer to removing that unnecessary restriction as well.

I saw in the email from the wildlife commission with the dates for these meetings that they would be doing a phone survey but I have not seen anything else.

[clayteson]

Can't say that I really understand the Sunday hunting thing. I've heard everything from "It would help me get back into the sport" to "It'd let me pick my days because I couldn't get up for both Saturday and Sunday". Really? So you've been granted an extra day to hunt, and you can't manage to get out of bed 2 days in a row? You want to get back into the sport, so you're relying on an extra weekend day for that? Do you plan on scouting, or just going out to blast at anything you see?

I hunt during the week before work. Sometimes multiple times a week. And I get up and do it on the same weekend. Basically every weekend. That's waterfowl hunting to me. I take advantage of every opportunity I can.

We all know season opens Saturday, so I would encourage everyone to take notice of your local public spot. I can't say how many times I've sat in a boat on public land and counted hundreds of shots only to return to the dock and not see A...SINGLE....FREAKING...BIRD. What the hell are we doing out there? Do you not think that runs birds out of an area? And you don't believe in a day of rest? You realize this puts birds EAST of I95 (our prime territory) hunted 7 days a week right? Granted those areas will see a higher flux of birds regardless, but for areas in the piedmont that do not get that flux, you don't think blasting up a spot 2 days in a row guarantees fewer birds there the next time? With the poor hunting judgement I've seen around here coupled with the lame excuses to justify Sunday hunting, I just can't see this benefiting anyone.

If you'd like to make a public comment, you can go here....
https://www.ncmigratorybirds.org/discus ... ommenting=

[CatFan]

Well, to each is own which is actually at the heart of this matter. Hunting before work is not an option for most, nor is hunting two days every weekend. Many of us have other responsibilities (career, family, etc) that often take priority over hunting. For instances, I have obligations this Saturday that prevent me from hunting but if the law allowed I'd be out there on Sunday.

As far as a day of rest, that would be based on the assumption that a duck actually knows that one day a week (which is in turn based on the assumption that a duck can read a calendar) he'll get a chance to relax and not worry about being hunted. But he doesn't know that. And in reality, even though hunting is open during the week there are fewer hunters afield during the week so this would not mean a constant 7 day a week barrage. And, all this ignores the fact most states allow hunting on Sunday with no additional restrictions with no ill affects on hunting.

If a qualified wildlife biologist could show me data on how restricting hunting on Sunday benefited the game we pursue I'd perhaps have a different opinion. But so far I have not seen this. Its been law in NC since right after the Civil War when this country had no interest in wildlife management at all so that is not why we have this. If a day of rest really mattered it would be a common practcice

[merg]

A duck needs to read a calendar to know he didn't get shot at, highballed , jump shot, boat rallied and spotlighted today? In the coastal counties ducks are hunted all week long on public waters. The idea they get a break on weekdays is a myth. It's not about their biological health- it's about keeping them in huntable public waters, in huntable numbers. Which happens when they aren't hounded to death.
NC kills more ducks than any other AF state so it seems no Sunday hunting has had a positive effect here. Why, or how long the law has been in effect is beside the point. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
There is ample opportunity for folks who make fowling a priority. If you have other priorities that's on you. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Shurshot]

[quote="merg"
In the coastal counties ducks are hunted all week long on public waters. The idea they get a break on weekdays is a myth. It's not about their biological health- it's about keeping them in huntable public waters, in huntable numbers. Which happens when they aren't hounded to death.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more with this fact. Saturdays without a doubt are the most pressured days. The reason why we are considering Sunday hunting is to ..........give MORE HUNTERS an opportunity to hunt that don’t on the weekdays. That’s great, I’d love for it to be more inclusive but that simply is not a management practice any biologist or joe blow hunter that knows anything about our public lakes and coastal ducks/areas would endorse in good faith. You’d simply be putting even more pressure on what few birds remain after hearing every brand mallard call known to man and having their arses shot at when they get within 100 yards of a spread. If one thinks that the hunting the same spots two days in a row will produce great shooting opportunities then they either have a nice big private place all to themselves or they are sitting on bid ole pile of gold. Birds ain’t stupid but just a few times.

[clayteson]

Well, to each is own which is actually at the heart of this matter. Hunting before work is not an option for most, nor is hunting two days every weekend. Many of us have other responsibilities (career, family, etc) that often take priority over hunting. For instances, I have obligations this Saturday that prevent me from hunting but if the law allowed I'd be out there on Sunday.

As far as a day of rest, that would be based on the assumption that a duck actually knows that one day a week (which is in turn based on the assumption that a duck can read a calendar) he'll get a chance to relax and not worry about being hunted. But he doesn't know that. And in reality, even though hunting is open during the week there are fewer hunters afield during the week so this would not mean a constant 7 day a week barrage. And, all this ignores the fact most states allow hunting on Sunday with no additional restrictions with no ill affects on hunting.

If a qualified wildlife biologist could show me data on how restricting hunting on Sunday benefited the game we pursue I'd perhaps have a different opinion. But so far I have not seen this. Its been law in NC since right after the Civil War when this country had no interest in wildlife management at all so that is not why we have this. If a day of rest really mattered it would be a common practcice

I'm really not trying to offend anyone, but this honestly makes zero sense. The days on the calendar have nothing to do with this, and neither is it personal "preference". If I came into your neighborhood on a Monday, rang off a box of shells at 7am, possibly killed a couple crows, squirrels, or family pets, would you not be weary on Tuesday? If I came back Tuesday and did the same thing, how long would it take you to move out of the area (granted you can't return fire or call police) - this is an analogy, I won't be coming to your neighborhood anytime soon If I didn't come back for a week, or a month, would you not feel a little more comfortable and get back into your groove again? It doesn't matter if it's Sunday, Monday, Blueday, Greenday. There doesn't need to be an astronomical physicist to show that shooting at (very poorly might I add), calling to (also poorly), and overall pressuring animals (or people) causes changes in tendencies and routines. That's called common sense. When Zarqawi started massacring normal people in the middle east, don't' you think those people and families feared for their lives? Likely for a very long time. Same premise applies for running deer dogs. I release 10 German Shephards to chase you around for 5 days, how would you feel? No, when it's Saturday they're not sitting around a camp fire saying, "Wow I'm glad tomorrow is Sunday, no running from dogs". But the next day when they're actually roaming free, and NOT running from dogs, they've been allowed to settle some.

It's annoying that everyone who has said "birds get a break on the weekdays"....DON'T HUNT ON THE WEEKDAYS.. Can you see a blind from your desk? I assure you, birds are pressured on every legal day...especially down east. Guides do just that...they guide...for a living...everyday...regardless of conditions. And they stay booked all season long here.

A day of rest is common practice. Our local gamelands here our managed in exactly that way. Hunt A spot M, W, Th; hunt B spot T, F, S. That's how they all are. That's the law.

I also have a solid career, a family, a wife, a home/yard that requires maintenance, but I do everything I can to make my waterfowl opportunities aplenty during the season. THAT is my personal preference. The law shouldn't be changed to suit your personal preference, it should be based on the health and conditions of the waterfowl.

[Paul26]

Since this is all an academic argument anyway (the current NCGA would not touch this with a 20 foot pole):

I still don't understand what the issue is with hunting on Sunday and closing hunting on Wednesday. BigSprig---I do not read your post re: the Fed Register as to say this couldn't be done. My sea-lawyer read is that this language refers to the federal 60 day limit, and the allowance for splits. VA is in the same category as NC, and they have Sunday waterfowl hunting (albeit on private property). I do not think federal regs prevent NC from doing this. Hunting on Lejeune on Sundays took place....and they are subject to both Fed and State hunting regulations for waterfowl.

OF COURSE a day of no hunting helps keep birds in a given area. Anyone who has seen a spot over hunted knows this.

The argument for Sunday hunting is simple in my view: it is reasonable to say the majority of hunters have Sat-Sun off and could hunt both days, and these same people likely can't hunt on Wed (or Tue, or Thur). And if evidence is pretty clear that Sunday prohibitions on hunting has 19th century religious origins, and if the day-of-no-hunting-pressure can be a mid-week weekday, then I think it should be changed.

Another point on the day-of-no hunting-pressure argument: if they changed it as I spelled out above I think there are plenty of hunters who STILL wouldn't hunt on Sunday's due to religious obligations. I am one of them----I'm tied up from 0800-1100 52 Sundays a year. So for me, Sunday hunting (combined with a mid-week no hunt day) would give the birds two days per week off, not one.