PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby WoodieMan85 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:21 am

Paul26 wrote: VA is in the same category as NC, and they have Sunday waterfowl hunting (albeit on private property).


We can also hunt on most public waterways on Sunday as well, not just on private property. I was neither for nor against them changing the sunday hunting law a few years ago but I will say it is nice to be able to get out there both weekend days from time to time. Or, if the swamps aren't frozen Saturday but they are on sunday then I get the chance to kill some birds on the moving water where they're stacked up. I personally haven't seen anything bad come of it yet. Of course my dad still says "you need to be in church instead of huntin" but oh well. Christmas Eve I'll be doing a quick hunt before the 10AM service!! Good luck to yall boys, we've had a decent push of birds in central VA the past few days.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:28 pm

If the ducks really are getting hammers 6 days a week as some say, one more day will not make a difference. The duck do not know that the pressure is gone on that day. NC may shoot more than other states in the flyway but we also have more licensed hunters so that has more to do with the number of bird killed than than weather or not they get hunted on Sunday. Also, most of the other states in this flyway, including SC and until this year VA, but they kill fewer birds according to a previous post. So, the conclusion there is that a prohibition on Sunday hunting does not have an impact on birds killed.

As I have said many times, I have never heard of any sound wildlife management practice or study that says a Sunday prohibition helps hunting. Its only reason is to put butts in pews.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby merg » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Why do you think the big money duck clubs- you know, the ones wit the professional game managers- don't shoot them 7 days a week?
Why do you think the State impoundments and federal NWRs, wit all their biologists, limit hunting to 2-4 days per week?
Pressure is a huge factor in duck hunting. If you need a study to grasp that concept you are not a very experienced duck hunter. To suggest that since ducks are already over pressured it's okay to add considerably more pressure is disingenuous.

We kill more total ducks than ANY other state in the Atlantic Flyway. Yes we have the most hunters but our per hunter duck harvest is second only to Fla. in the AF.
More hunters killing more ducks. I'll stick with that.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby Shurshot » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:51 am

I participated in one of the focus group studies last night in Wilmington. Very good with, as expected, many varied opinions. Probably more yea’s than nah’s but not by a lot. The yea’s mostlyly were river/swamp hunters that wanted to be able to choose which weekend day to hunt. Pressure was not issue to them for various reasons and the Sunday quit time was irrelevant. There was only one “open water” hunter that was in favor. As for me and the other desenters, the theme was centered around the pressure issues, in particular to the coastal public lands and surrounding rivers, bays and sounds. Most if not all people agreed it was a consideration but because of the “what only affects me” factor, they could haves cared less about the public as a whole. And that’s pretty much the way it was, good discussions that I think brought issues up that previously had not really been given any thought.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 am

merg wrote:Why do you think the big money duck clubs- you know, the ones wit the professional game managers- don't shoot them 7 days a week?
Why do you think the State impoundments and federal NWRs, wit all their biologists, limit hunting to 2-4 days per week?
Pressure is a huge factor in duck hunting. If you need a study to grasp that concept you are not a very experienced duck hunter. To suggest that since ducks are already over pressured it's okay to add considerably more pressure is disingenuous.

We kill more total ducks than ANY other state in the Atlantic Flyway. Yes we have the most hunters but our per hunter duck harvest is second only to Fla. in the AF.
More hunters killing more ducks. I'll stick with that.


My desire to see real research has nothing to do with relative levels of hunting experience and that is a very misinformed perspective. When making important decisions like this we should use actual fact to drive our decisions and not assumption based on opinions that may or may not be accurate or, more commonly, the 'we've always done it this way' mentality.

If there is concern regarding pressure on coastal birds, which is where most of these opinions seem to come form, we don't we push to limit those areas to on 3-4 days a week. Maybe some are, I don't know since I don't hunt that area, but if the believe really is that those birds already see to much pressure then there should be support to reduce that pressure by further limiting they days they can be hunted.

I tend to see opposition coming from two groups. One are those that say they won't hunt on Sunday because will go to church instead and those we hunt during the week frequently. The second group doesn't feel the need for the second weekend day so from their perspective they are getting want they want and aren't too concerned with how that affects others.

There are other ways to reduce hunting pressure and still allow hunting on Sunday. Not say I agree with all of these ideas but...

1. No Wednesday hunting. Ducks don't know Sunday from Wednesday so one is as good as the other.
2. No hunting after noon. Give them half of every day to rest. That's probably more impactful then one day off and 6 full days of hunting.
3. Raise license fees or institute a waterfowl lottery to reduce the number of hunters. I hate this idea but it would work.
4. Create more refuges where no hunting is allowed at all. I grew up hunting the backwater of the Ohio River and we had a huge refuge. Once the migration started you could drive by and see 10s of thousands of birds in one place. The corn the state threw out probably helped. But, that kept birds in the area and they don't all spend all day on the refuge.
4. Shorten the season.
5. Reduce daily bag limits. In areas with lots of birds where limits are common, this would end the shooting sooner.

So, there are other ways to reduce hunting pressure and still allow hunting on Sunday. The fact that no other options are ever considered tells me that hunting pressure is not the real motivation behind the prohibition.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby merg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:58 pm

CatFan wrote:
merg wrote:l
4. Create more refuges where no hunting is allowed at all. I grew up hunting the backwater of the Ohio River and we had a huge refuge. .

.


Ah, the ol ' because that's how we did it up north before I moved here' arguement.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:09 pm

merg wrote:
CatFan wrote:
merg wrote:l
4. Create more refuges where no hunting is allowed at all. I grew up hunting the backwater of the Ohio River and we had a huge refuge. .

.


Ah, the ol ' because that's how we did it up north before I moved here' arguement.


Since when is west Kentucky up north? See how uninformed assumptions lead you down the wrong path? Try not be so totally closed minded anything but your own thoughts. I presented options that would achieve the stated goal of reducing pressure. That is simply one option.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby merg » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 pm

Every inch of the Ohio River is north of NC. That is a fact.
Suggesting more refuges are needed at the coast would qualify as an uninformed assumption since, in FACT, we have Pea Island, Currituck, Alligator River, Pocosin Lakes, Mattamuskeet and Swan Quarter NWRs all packed in here.
'ducks aren't pressured on weekdays' and 'NC kills more ducks simply because it has more hunters' are fine examples of "uninformed assumptions" that have been stated as fact so yes I do see exactly how those assumptions took you down the wrong path.

So you're suggesting cutting hours, limits and seasons, along with raising fees- all because you have 'other priorities' on Saturdays, holidays, vacation days, etc.
Good luck with that....
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby ncbufflehead » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:29 pm

We don't need anymore refuges. Between the ones we have and the impoundments that never get hunted there's plenty of "refuge". If anything, we need a very limited amount of some type of draw hunts on the ones we already have. The ducks get in them and do not leave because there is never any pressure.


But that will never happen. Refuges are managed for critters not people.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:01 pm

merg wrote:Every inch of the Ohio River is north of NC. That is a fact.
Suggesting more refuges are needed at the coast would qualify as an uninformed assumption since, in FACT, we have Pea Island, Currituck, Alligator River, Pocosin Lakes, Mattamuskeet and Swan Quarter NWRs all packed in here.
'ducks aren't pressured on weekdays' and 'NC kills more ducks simply because it has more hunters' are fine examples of "uninformed assumptions" that have been stated as fact so yes I do see exactly how those assumptions took you down the wrong path.

So you're suggesting cutting hours, limits and seasons, along with raising fees- all because you have 'other priorities' on Saturdays, holidays, vacation days, etc.
Good luck with that....


You didn't read all of what I wrote, just the stuff you wanted to disagree with. I stated that I didn't necessarily agree with those approaches. I just pointed them out as being other options to reducing pressure if that is in fact the goal of prohibiting hunting on Sunday. But, I do not believe that is the goal. There are other ways to keep pressure down AND allow hunting on Sunday. As others have mentioned, a day during the week could be prohibited. Stating that prohibiting hunting on Sunday, and only Sunday, is simply not realistic. But since that fits the desires of some, they continue to support it self-serving purposes.

And, the location of the Ohio River is irrelevant and Kentucky is not, buy any means, up north.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby Shurshot » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:06 pm

As has been said before, we can’t take away a day off the week and replace it for a Sunday. Fed law only allows a state to “split” their season into three segments with consecutive days within each split so by doing so would constitute a split each time we did that. Pressure is measured by “effort”, whether it’s hunting or fishing. If Saturday’s are the most pressured days of the week because more people are off work, it stands to reason that Sunday’s won’t be much different...certainly much more than any day of the week. Afterall, that’s what this whole debates about, having more days to hunt for the people that can’t during the week because of work obligations. But as usual, it’s all about what suits the individual’s interest above all else.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby HydeMarsh » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:00 pm

Catfan, its more complicated than what you describe for the real centers of duck hunting in NC. I agree, as I usually do, with Merg, Shurshot, and NC Bufflehead.

Where the majority of ducks are killed in this state, Sunday hunting will provide almost no relief for the average hunter. The corrupt blind laws in 4 of the top five counties keep 99.5% of NC citizens from hunting public water regardless of the day of the week. That crams most of the state's hunters who want to hunt a coastal setting into Hyde. Two days in a row of weekend level pressure is very different from what you described. The affect will not be good for Hyde. it will push the birds to the adjacent counties where we cannot hunt. nobody but a few Pamlico/Dare/Carteret county landowners win with this situation.

Regardless, ducks are getting more like deer, nocturnal during hunting season in places that you can shoot them.. I watched Saturday morning at just before shooting time thousands of redheads and bluebills leaving the sound and heading to the refuge.
Same way in most of the impoundments.

I don't care if Sunday hunting was allowed west of 17 and if the penalties for trespass were more stringent.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:22 pm

HydeMarsh wrote:Catfan, its more complicated than what you describe for the real centers of duck hunting in NC. I agree, as I usually do, with Merg, Shurshot, and NC Bufflehead.

Where the majority of ducks are killed in this state, Sunday hunting will provide almost no relief for the average hunter. The corrupt blind laws in 4 of the top five counties keep 99.5% of NC citizens from hunting public water regardless of the day of the week. That crams most of the state's hunters who want to hunt a coastal setting into Hyde. Two days in a row of weekend level pressure is very different from what you described. The affect will not be good for Hyde. it will push the birds to the adjacent counties where we cannot hunt. nobody but a few Pamlico/Dare/Carteret county landowners win with this situation.

Regardless, ducks are getting more like deer, nocturnal during hunting season in places that you can shoot them.. I watched Saturday morning at just before shooting time thousands of redheads and bluebills leaving the sound and heading to the refuge.
Same way in most of the impoundments.

I don't care if Sunday hunting was allowed west of 17 and if the penalties for trespass were more stringent.


Well, I can see how the varied habitats in the state make it more difficult. I see post of same stated that the desire to hunt on Sunday is self-serving but the way you described the situation on the coast, so does the ban to me. Your description make is sound as if they won't necessarily leave the state but rather relocate to areas within the state that many can't access. I get that the majority of the hunting, as well as the ducks, is on the coast but I'm sure you can see how it kinda sucks for those of us that don't hunt out there. I thought about different reg on either side of 17 but I doubt the federal regulation would permit it. Well, at the least those closed Sundays east of 17 would still count against our 60 days. That would mean a shorter season on the coast and I'm sure no one would support that even if it does reduce pressure which is the stated goal.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby Galactic Ricky » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:36 pm

This is a stupid idea and many coastal counties and guides are against it. They know what it will do to the birds around here. Looking at forums about this, it seems the West of 95 crowd is all for it. Yeah, OK. Doesn't your bird hunting suck enough already? If this BS passes, I hope the coastal counties do keep a ban on it, even if it does shorten the season. Damn! Saturdays are already a joke, and now we've got morons wanting to make it Sundays too!!! Woohoo!!! An extra day for DA's to shoot their gun at mallards 100 yards away. An extra day for DA's to blow hail calls to seagulls. Delta waterfowl can kiss my ***.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby lumpy2181 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:56 pm

Shurshot wrote:As has been said before, we can’t take away a day off the week and replace it for a Sunday. Fed law only allows a state to “split” their season into three segments with consecutive days within each split so by doing so would constitute a split each time we did that.

If we can't hunt on Sundays, wouldn't that also constitute a "split?" Seems like it would be 6 in one and a half dozen in the other on that.

I am for Sunday hunting and yes, it is for selfish reasons. I am unfortunately in an area (west of Bragg) where the vast majority of "public" land is sh*t when it comes to duck hunting. On top of that, the ones nearest to me are additionally limited on the days I can access and hunt them (3 day a week gamelands) so I get the extra shaft on that. To top it off, I've been drawn for permits twice in the nearly 7 years I have lived here. Rhodes Pond has been closed since before then and doesn't look to be up and running again any time soon so that is yet another area somewhat close that is not available. We could be a helluva lot better than what we have now if the state would put a bit of effort into it. My suggestion when I wrote in to the NC Wildlife discussion for this subject was to institute something similar to what Missouri does when it comes to public draws. Instead of doing one massive draw for the year, which leads to folks getting drawn and not hunting because something comes up in between, they should do draws the week before and then have employees there to check folks in/out so that when an area is vacant, someone else could hunt it. MO does a quick draw system and it works like this: "Drawings will occur on Monday at 4:00 p.m. for hunts on the following Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday, and on Thursday at 4:00 p.m. for hunts on the following Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday." On the day of the hunt, the hunters check in and then head to their hunting zones. If any spots are not claimed, people can do an additional draw (poor line) that morning to choose between what is left available. Now, they get to hunt all week long, so we could simply just adjust the days based on our season but we'd get more folks out hunting and make better use of what we already have. As for the refuges, we definitely need them. We also need to switch it up every now and then to keep the birds moving and not simply going straight to the non-huntable areas year after year. Lastly, the blind law crap in the NE coastal portion of the state needs to be demolished. While I understand the premise of "safety" that is implied, the truth of the matter is it is a good old boys network of folks in those counties who are using a public resource for personal gain. I've seen numerous guides and outfitters using this public land to run their operations. I have mixed feelings on guiding on public land in general. I feel that a guide in a boat chasing birds is ok as they have the same shot at the birds that I would but when they get these blinds, lock up 1000 yards of huntable water/area around them, preventing others from hunting near it, and make money off of it, I take offense. The whole 9:30-12:30 "quiet hours" deal is crap too. Everyone I have spoken to about it has said that it is residual religious impact on the law. Separation of Church and State needs to be established. Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. I don't give a hoot if you don't want people hunting while you're in church. Your religion should not impact my right to pursue happiness.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby merg » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:19 am

Is Sunday hunting going to magically change the sucky public hunting in your area to good public hunting??? No
Will it change the 3 day a week rules? No
Will it get Rhoades pond reopened? No
Is it going to increase your odds of pulling a draw hunt? No
Is it going to change the way draw hunts are conducted? No
Will the refuges change their rules? No
Will SH change the blind laws? No
Will SH take guides off public water? No- SH is about more "economic opportunity'" not less. SH will bring all grades of fly by night guides out of the woodwork.

Not saying you don't have legit gripes but SH ain't gonna improve any of the issues you listed. In fact it will do the opposite with many of them.
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Re: PUBLIC MEETINGS RE: SUNDAY HUNTING

Postby CatFan » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:38 am

Lumpy, the Fed gives an exemption to states that ban Sunday hunting so that it does not count as a split. I guess they are not willing to do that for states that banned it on a day not favored by a specific religion. Your ideas on draw hunts are great but require money we are not going to invest. There are dozens of permit only locations and each would require one or two people to staff it. That's not going to happen.
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