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I doubt they added more shot to insure a better crimp. A couple plastic beads like Federal or Remington use would be WAY cheaper. Or trimming the hulls the way Kent does (or has done). Yes, these might add some man-hours to the product, but I find it hard to believe it's more than the cost of the shot.
Perhaps they upped the payload for marketing reasons?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I doubt they added more shot to insure a better crimp. A couple plastic beads like Federal or Remington use would be WAY cheaper. Or trimming the hulls the way Kent does (or has done). Yes, these might add some man-hours to the product, but I find it hard to believe it's more than the cost of the shot.
Perhaps they upped the payload for marketing reasons?
I would not put adding shot to adjust crimping height past them. Boss creates fairly simple loads with the special sauce really just being the copper plating of their own shot. So, addition of spacers, cushion wads, or buffer would not just be an added cost of components, but it would drastically add cost of machinery, staging of components, and man-hours. This all adds up extremely fast when the company is very small and has limited resources/space and is trying to crank out Millions of shells in every gauge. Similarly, trimming hulls would also not help, as repeating 10ga shotguns can be sensitive to the OAL of the hulls for reliable cycling and the shorter Ched hulls they use are already on the shorter side of the 3-1/2" Magnum specs.

So, adding 1/16oz more (really this amounts to a minimal number of pellets, especially in #1 or #2 - between 5 and 8 pellets difference) for a better crimp at the same or similar powder charge with the added benefit of better burns at low temps it makes sense. The shells went from pricing at $2.20 to $2.25 a round in the first production run of 2020 and sold in 2022's production run for $2.85 to $3.00 a round. While most of this rise in cost is inflation and material/component supply chain constraints, there was most likely a consideration for "balancing" the payload for better production and with minimal increase in materials used. With that considered, it makes sense.

Regarding marketing reasons, it has some effect but I would not venture to say it was the motivating factor. An "X-1/8oz" is much more familiar to shooters than a "X-1/16oz" and bigger is always better to many, but I am not so sure it does much more in this scenario. It is already the heaviest Non-Tox waterfowl load offered in the 10ga and over the entire market. Even Environmetal (now owned by Vista) keeps their 10ga loads for Steel, Hevi-shot, Bismuth, and mixed shot materials topped out at 1-3/4oz. So it's not like the competition is even close for pattern density and payload weight, outside of super heavy custom TSS loads offered by APEX and others.
 

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I doubt they added more shot to insure a better crimp. A couple plastic beads like Federal or Remington use would be WAY cheaper. Or trimming the hulls the way Kent does (or has done). Yes, these might add some man-hours to the product, but I find it hard to believe it's more than the cost of the shot.
Perhaps they upped the payload for marketing reasons?
I don’t think they use any filler. Possibly in their turkey loads, those are hand loaded. I’ve been in the shop a few times.

the Cheddite hull issue is not unique to Boss, many guys on here and other forums do not favor those hulls for plenty of their own reasons. The Gold 10 and theCheddite hulls did not play nice from our experience. I talked to Brandon in depth on this and appreciate his time and input. I have up chasing the issues with that gun and those hulls. I measured the overall expansion of fired and unfired brass, and cheddites expanded the most. The all brass federal Turkey loads and paper base hulls had very little expansion once fired.
 

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Sure, that could be the reasoning. I still find it hard to believe it's the case. 1/16 of shot doesn't sound like much till you multiply it by several thousand shells. But again, I dont know all that goes into their decisions.

Of course, this is all assuming it is actually 2.125 oz of shot. Could be they are rounding up now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I don’t think they use any filler. Possibly in their turkey loads, those are hand loaded. I’ve been in the shop a few times.

the Cheddite hull issue is not unique to Boss, many guys on here and other forums do not favor those hulls for plenty of their own reasons. The Gold 10 and the Cheddite hulls did not play nice from our experience. I talked to Brandon in depth on this and appreciate his time and input. I have up chasing the issues with that gun and those hulls. I measured the overall expansion of fired and unfired brass, and cheddites expanded the most. The all brass federal Turkey loads and paper base hulls had very little expansion once fired.
The Ched hull issue has reared its ugly head the most in my experience when it comes to the chamber conditions of different shotguns. The expansion rate of the Cheds seems to be an issue across the board, but this really only seems to become an apparent problem when it comes to shotguns with rough or dirty chambers. My G10 had many cycling issues (Extraction/Ejection) with all hulls due to its chamber condition from the factory. A hone and fine polish resolved this issue. I have recomended the same fix to a number of individuals that have had cycling issues in the G10 and others and it has resolved their issues with cycling with the Ched hulls, to include Boss and Hevi loads.

I suffered the same issues in my SBE 3 on a hunt with Boss loads, and the culprit was a dirty and rough chamber. Once again, a good cleaning and some polish made a world's difference. The expansion rate is again to blame, ultimately, as the more the shell obdurates the more surface area there is to stick and grab onto dirt and imperfections in the chamber. However, I feel many forget about chamber maintenance on their shotguns and that tends to be an equally contributing limitation of reliability with the Ched hulls.

Resizing is not the best with the Ched hulls either, and I usually am only able to get 1 to 3 reloads out of a Ched hull in comparison to 5 to 8 out of Winchester or Remington hulls, regardless of gauge (my experience is with 10 and 12 bore).
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Boss Bismuth Vs RotoMetals Bismuth

I received both Rotometals’ and Boss Shotshells’ bismuth this past week. I was not happy with the #B shot’s quality, so Rocky at Roto sent me a 10# bag of #2 for no cost along with #3, #1, and #0 samples. Great customer service, fantastic guy!

Boss has great service too and I am stoked they had enough #2 to sell by the pound. Neither are as consistent as the Tin plated Sphero, but both should pattern well.

Boss has no creases but does seem to have flats. Roto has creases here and there, but is consistent and looks to be tumbled. I have used a good amount of Boss in factory loads, so I know that this stuff buffered should be fantastic. I’ll post some patterns as soon as I can.
 
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Hey 1776,
I’ve been lurking around here for a few years now. You’ve finally got me to log in. Thanks for sharing about your bismuth endeavors and thanks for your YouTube videos, I’ve seen a few of them.
How did you go about ordering from Boss? I emailed them last year about buying shot from them and never heard back. Dunno maybe my spam folder ate their reply.
I’ve ordered from Roto as well and was not impressed with the quality. I ordered their samples in 5 and 3. Then later ordered 10 pounds of 3.5. Overall most of the shot looks good and it shoots good but if I were to sort out all the garbage pieces I’d probably end up with ounces of slag looking pcs.
I started into bismuth with the hopes of making some killer 20 gauge loads for my son to kill a swan with. Now this last winter I picked up a Mag-10 and I can’t seem to see past the 2oz load options for it.
Anywho keep us updated on your progress. And I’ll keep an eye on your channel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Hey 1776,
I’ve been lurking around here for a few years now. You’ve finally got me to log in. Thanks for sharing about your bismuth endeavors and thanks for your YouTube videos, I’ve seen a few of them.
How did you go about ordering from Boss? I emailed them last year about buying shot from them and never heard back. Dunno maybe my spam folder ate their reply.
I’ve ordered from Roto as well and was not impressed with the quality. I ordered their samples in 5 and 3. Then later ordered 10 pounds of 3.5. Overall most of the shot looks good and it shoots good but if I were to sort out all the garbage pieces I’d probably end up with ounces of slag looking pcs.
I started into bismuth with the hopes of making some killer 20 gauge loads for my son to kill a swan with. Now this last winter I picked up a Mag-10 and I can’t seem to see past the 2oz load options for it.
Anywho keep us updated on your progress. And I’ll keep an eye on your channel.
Thanks for the kind words and I’m stoked you’ve enjoyed the load videos and info. I will be keeping info and testing updated on the channel and with posts here, maybe some other places too.

I ordered from Boss by asking them via email if they still sold loose shot. They replied quickly and quoted me a price of $20 a pound. Not cheap, but you can’t get 94/6% American Made copper plated Bismuth-tin alloy pellets anywhere else (and Roto is bare 94/6% bismuth-tin mix at $17.99 a pound shipped). I finished out the ordering by giving the shop a call; threw in 2 boxes of 28ga #5 for good measure. Took 10 minutes on the phone with one of their newer ladies assisting me; she was a darling to work with, supper kind and helpful.

I would recommend you give them a call to ask what shot they have in stock and place your order. I communicated with Zach via email and he said at the time I ordered they had plenty of #2’s, but they would not have #1’s until November. I did not ask about smaller sizes since I am using the shot for the 10ga and 12ga black powder loads.

They have been busier than a one legged man at an ass kicking contest for over 2 years at this point. They just released a news letter for the first time in ages and stated that they have had to expand and hire more folks to handle calls and emails while cranking out every round they can; I believe them. I love thier products and they have always treated me well. Rocky at Roto is a fantastic guy as well and I think their smaller sizes past muster, but it’s still not as good as the Boss shot. True 94/6% Bismuth-Tin alloy will never be truly round, but different methods result in different quality of shot and concentricity consistency. Roto has been doing it for a long time but it’s not quite perfect. Boss plating the shot helps cover up any imperfections and reduce drag as well. I will see what patterns do in the same loadings and share the results.Terminal ballistics will always edge to the harder, smoother, rounder pellet though. I guess the real question to answer is it enough of a difference to make a difference? I’ll try to find out…
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Shot as many patterns as I could today between the following guns and chokes. I was only able to finish patterns at 40 and 50 yards, hopefully I will get 60 yards done tomorrow. It will take me a while to go through all 30 patterns and compile the data, but thus far the “eyeball” data says that anything more than a Modified choke at less than 40 yards is too mean for those that want to eat the birds they kill. Haha!

I changed my mind too and decided to go with the 40, 50, and 60 yard patterns instead of 45, 50, 55, and 60. I’m glad I did though because the consistency of the patterns is excellent across guns and chokes.

Ithaca Mag-10 - 32” Barrel “FULL (Fixed .725”)

Ithaca Mag-10 Deluxe - 28” Barrel Briley Thin Wall Choke (.745” LF, .735” Imp. Full)

Browning Gold 10 - 28” Barrel (.750” Carlson’s IM, .720” Terror Tube)
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Shot as many patterns as I could today between the following guns and chokes. I was only able to finish patterns at 40 and 50 yards, hopefully I will get 60 yards done tomorrow. It will take me a while to go through all 30 patterns and compile the data, but thus far the “eyeball” data says that anything more than a Modified choke at less than 40 yards is too mean for those that want to eat the birds they kill. Haha!

I changed my mind too and decided to go with the 40, 50, and 60 yard patterns instead of 45, 50, 55, and 60. I’m glad I did though because the consistency of the patterns is excellent across guns and chokes.

Ithaca Mag-10 - 32” Barrel “FULL (Fixed .725”)

Ithaca Mag-10 Deluxe - 28” Barrel Briley Thin Wall Choke (.745” LF, .735” Imp. Full)

Browning Gold 10 - 28” Barrel (.750” Carlson’s IM, .720” Terror Tube)
Completed the 60 yard pattern tests yesterday. Processing patterns and consolidating the data this week. Pretty consistent results once again across chokes. Spoiler: The .720 Terror Tube in the G10 seems to have patterned the best at 60 yards, but not by as much as you would think, especially when compared to the .750" IM Carlson's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Awesome. Just seen your video. I’m most interested in the fixed full Mag-10 as I can’t see myself getting a choke installed this year.
The Fixed full (32” bbl) M10 did well. Patterns started to open at 50 yards a bit more than the other two guns and chokes, but it still produced goose worthy patterns at 60 yards. I would feel confident shooting at big ducks at 55 yards with the gun and load combo. It of course registered the highest average and most consistent velocities at just over 1,300 FPS too. Really, by eye at 60 it wasn’t much worse than the M10 Deluxe with the Briley .745” LF and .735” “Improved” Full.

If my shooting were up to par for the hunt, i’d be confident pass shooting with any of the three with this load, but i’d choose the Boss shot since it has the higher average weight per pellet.

When I compile the data, it will break all shots down by gun/choke, bismuth source, and yardage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I am still working on compiling data from the pattern tests and have about 15 more targets to process. However, I do have some 40 and 50 yard samples to share. Let me know if you have any questions on these. Each gun, choke, and yardage should be visible on the pattern paper.
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