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payload is not a substitute for poor marksmenship. a 12ga #4 1 1/8 and a 20 ga #4 11/8 both traveling 1500 fps have the same energy at the bird......half the time ppl who comp[lain about steel not killing well enough just arent shooting well enough and lean on that "non-toxic" line as an excuse as to why there game bag isnt that full, but if they thought back a minute to when lead was legal there gamebag wasnt much heavier then either. i use a 20 ga 1 oz to 1 1/8 3" mod or imp. choke w/ hevishot #4&6 and have no trouble at all also #4 drylok and kill cleanly and when i dont its cuz i MISSED not because of weak loads. hold a tight bead fellas and it dont matter 12 or 20
 

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actually i have patterned All my 20 gauge w/ almost every combo of chokes and loads and lengths and distances and the rem chokes seem to throw 3" extremely well. otherwise i wouldnt hunt w/ it.... infact less holes then a few of my 12s. i dont know if you guys have ever played around much w/ the larger steel but ive found the improved and skeet pattern very well also, doesnt seem to create as much of a blown pattern. personally i think remington has the best chokes on the market. im not trying to be a peckerhead and make you 12 ga. guys mad i just enjoy taking my 11-87 upland special and folding birds w/ one shot kill, doubling and tripling while my hunting buddies empty all three and get one or none. till next time keep yer booger hook off the bang swith till the set their wings!!!
 

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this topic was never very hot when lead was legal...i believe we should be able to use lead stiil, i think more ducks die or get wounded and die later from disease or trauma or whatever then i think die from eating lead off the bottom. what do ya think.
identify them once there in the boat!
 

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what loads do you use w/ your 410? i shot a partridge up at camp w/ a 410 t/c contender handgun and it barrel-roled it. then it got up and it walked off down the road. it was kida funny so we figured he deserved to get away. that kida left a sour taste for the ol' .64 bore
 

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yeah thats true of everything. ive never tried waterfowl w/ a 410, sounds kinda fun though. infact, i like the new lever action 410, its kinda cute. probably would work well on these maine rabbits!
 

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my older brother uses those damn 3 1/2" bbb and shoots more and hits less then i do w/ my 7/8oz #4 20ga. oh how it pisses him off....this is off topic but has anyone had a good year for acorns cuz here in maine we have none and the woodies are about gone cuz of it.
 

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its always the guys who couldnt hit the ground w/ a rock who argue the 20 is "handicapped". the only part of your completelyoff key statement that was correct is that they throw more shot. but i spose if u like pound of steel shot in your duck roast go for it!! :thumbsup:
 

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haha that might have a little to do w/ it al but puddlers that feed on nuts and acorn and plant seeds get granular and grit off the bottom and use it to grind the food and they suck in or ingest lead shot and this causes a lead poisoning.
 

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back up mr. defensive. i didnt say that you cant load a 12 hotter first off. i said that apples fopr apples they hit equally hard. for ex. 3" 12 @1500 1 oz off #4 hits equall compared to a 20 ga 3" @1500 1 oz. and second, pattern is simply a function of choke. and again load to load the pattern should be +/- 2% of eachother providing both weapons shoot nicely. and THIRD i said that you DO NOT NEED A 12ga and forth im pretty positive crackerjack that i dont need you to pm me any ballistics on each gauge. and look out Annie Oakley, cuz here comes the first cyber clay pigeon!!! holy!, its a double! good luck w/ that
 
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