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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After watching the Berkeley stuff online and on TV I got curious to see if any young guys on here dont know who or what she is? I know its an issue that may get guys fired up but I would hate to see a generation forget. I will include the Snopes link so you can pick out the facts from BS. I got a little upset today and ranted because I saw an anti war protestor today with a poster that read "Thank God for Dead Soldiers." and "Thank God for IED's"

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp
 

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I'm 26, and I know all about Hanoi Jane....but I have to ask the question, why is this relevant for my generation? Why should we care?

Seriously, she was a stupid liberal actress who denounced her country. I'll give you the POW issue...that was total bullshyte. But her overall message against the war was right. I think universally historians (and most americans) agree that the Vietnam conflict was one that we should have never been involved in. We lost with guns...but ultimately won over time with money. Trade (i.e. "money") has always been are biggest advantage in conflicts like Vietnam.

She was right on American soldiers committing war crimes, see "My Lai" as an example. Don't get me wrong, if I was there I'd be marching around with an ear neckless too. I don't blame the soldiers one bit...but that doesn't mean she was wrong on that issue.

I guess I don't see your point. If nothing else, all your doing is giving credence to some stupid Hollywood bytch and trying to make people remember someone who shouldn't be remembered. Let it go.
 

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Matt Jones said:
I'm 26, and I know all about Hanoi Jane....but I have to ask the question, why is this relevant for my generation? Why should we care?

Seriously, she was a stupid liberal actress who denounced her country. I'll give you the POW issue...that was total bullshyte. But her overall message against the war was right. I think universally historians (and most americans) agree that the Vietnam conflict was one that we should have never been involved in. We lost with guns...but ultimately won over time with money. Trade (i.e. "money") has always been are biggest advantage in conflicts like Vietnam.

She was right on American soldiers committing war crimes, see "My Lai" as an example. Don't get me wrong, if I was there I'd be marching around with an ear neckless too. I don't blame the soldiers one bit...but that doesn't mean she was wrong on that issue.

I guess I don't see your point. If nothing else, all your doing is giving credence to some stupid Hollywood bytch and trying to make people remember someone who shouldn't be remembered. Let it go.
Because the same crap is going on today over the Iraq war...in case you didn't know, we are at war right now....so, yes, it is relavent. And don't even pretend that you know about war crimes...yeah, maybe they were committed, but after seeing your buddies get blown up by a kid with a bomb strapped to him, I think I would get a little pissed off too. War is hell brother, and the civilians pay just as high of a price as the soldiers do....the non combatants ought to get the heck out of the way so the damn enemy can't hide behind them....cowards....just like the terrorists...freaking cowards....
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I drank too much pendleton whiskey tonight to argue but for once Tom is right. Matt no matter what the soldiers might have done She was in the wrong and dont tell me to let it go. I refuse to let it go not for me but for the guys on the wall in washington. Although i generally disagree with Tom alot we are together on this. Research and use your head. Thats all I ask.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
:cheers:
 

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http://www.gulfwarmemorial.com/hero.php?id=4316

Here is mine....coached him, his twin brother, and his older brother in wrestling since they were knee high...road side bomb took his life at 21....his twin brother shipped out right after his funeral....

and another thing....people shouldn't be saying..."oh I support the troops, but I am against the war"....what the hell do you think the troops are doing over there? They are fighting a war so everyone has the freedoms that we have today...and that includes being able to have diarreah of the mouth....
 

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Amen guys! I am fortunate that all of my friends over there have not been injuted or shot, but I do share your sentiments.

Just last night over a couple cold ones, a friend and I were discussing this exact topic...the more we talked about Hanoi Jane the more pissed we each became. What I cannot believe that charges of treason weren't brought against the bit*# when she returned. I mean the Constitution provides freedom of speech which allows a person to say what they think or want without recourse. But the intent of these freedoms were not intended to permit speech that results in the immediate and drastic torture and killing of Americans.

Tom's reference to Santayana's quote is more prudent now than ever, and direcely relates to Matt's question. How soon the people of this country forget their history lessons showing what a country can do if everybody comes together behind a common goal. Remember WW1 or especially WW2? When faced with an imminent threat to our society we circled the wagons, cranked up our awesome industrial and technological might and kicked their asses. Well, the threat we now face is worse than what that of the german or Japaneese could ever bring.

Now that I've stepped off my soap box I'd just like to pass along my best wishes to our troops, both home and abroad. Good luck and Godspeed to all.
 

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Labs said:
the non combatants ought to get the heck out of the way so the damn enemy can't hide behind them....cowards....just like the terrorists...freaking cowards....
Wow.

Ever consider that the non-combatants don't have a choice? Ever think that the little boy or girl with a bomb strapped to them didn't want to be there and would have rather been off playing super-heroes with their buddies or tea-party with their friends?

You correct the other gentlemen, insinuating ignorance on his part, but perhaps you should know the answers yourself before getting on someone else.

I have never liked Jane Fonda since I read about the note passing incident, and now I find out it was bogus. I fully agree that what she did was wrong and I also consider her to be a traitor to the U. S. of A. I'm not sure why people like her even live here. What she did was wrong and because of who she is she got away with it. I often wonder what Henry thought of her and her actions.

And yes, war is hell, yet that does not excuse atrocity. It does not excuse those who are sent to bring democracy from doing whatever the hell they want, to whomever the hell the want.

Our military men and woman are our in essence our highest form of law enforcement. They, like our police, should be held to the highest of standards. Patriots of this country tend to become quickly offended when any of those peoples actions are called into question, and yet without a system of checks and balances all you would have is a bunch of young men with guns, indiscriminately killed whatever moved, because they can.

Not all of those people in those foreign countries want to be a part of the conflicts that took place or are now taking place. Some of them are just average Joes, that could care less about the rest of the world and just want to raise their families and keep them safe from harm. Ever consider that? People who are part of the conflict come to their homes and make them a part of the conflict. Citing the example you used of children with bombs on them. You cannot honestly believe there were very many mothers (or fathers for that matter) out there strapping explosives to their children and thinking "This is the right thing to do." That was done by military men, willing to kill their enemy in any way, shape, or form.

Get out of the way? Yeah, they should have gotten out of the way. Suddenly having your village overrun by the military and men with guns telling you what to do I'm sure gave you lots of options for getting out of the way.

Support our troops. Pray that they all return home safely. But do not condone behavior that is criminal - from any war or conflict. They are there for a purpose and if they tarnish the honor that their station thrusts upon them, then they are no better than those they fight against.
 

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There is only one reason that US Military members are ever tried for war crimes... That would be the Law of Armed Conflict, the rules of war. The problem, the US follows them and our enemies do not.

To answer the comment about the little kid and a bomb and does he want to be there, well the simple answer is YES. It is drilled in to their heads at such a young age that the US is bad that they want to resist. They are not allowed to see the true picture. If there is a person pointing an AK at you and you drop him, 99.9% of the time the kid next to him will grab his weapon.

I have friends over there now. They are not allowed to toss candy from their truck windows any more. Why? Cause the "innocent kids" learned that when the window is down the HMMWV and 5 Tons are much more vulnerable.
 

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Labs said:
And don't even pretend that you know about war crimes...yeah, maybe they were committed, but after seeing your buddies get blown up by a kid with a bomb strapped to him, I think I would get a little pissed off too.
Excuse me? Did you even read what I said?
Matt Jones said:
Don't get me wrong, if I was there I'd be marching around with an ear neckless too. I don't blame the soldiers one bit...but that doesn't mean she was wrong on that issue.
Maybe the reference to wearing an ear neckless was over your head...so I'll spell out what I meant for you.

I don't blame them one bit. If I was put in the same position as the soldiers in Vietnam I'd have been shooting women and children too if I saw my buddy blown up by a woman or kid with a bomb strapped to them. I think anyone who honestly can say there's no possibility of that happening to themselves is a liar. War is hell, no shyte...obviously I agree.

Maybe war crimes happened??? Of course they did, don't be naive. They happened for the same reasons you just talked about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
He quoted you When you said

Matt Jones wrote:
I'm 26, .... why is this relevant for my generation? Why should we care?
So in that context it is relevant. We need to remember the way the troops were treated when they came back and how that can never ever happen again. Misdirected activism can have consequences.
 

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That bitch should have been tried for TREASON and aiding and abetting the enemy during a time of war. She should have been publically executed by a firing squad! :mad:
 

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jrockncash said:
So in that context it is relevant. We need to remember the way the troops were treated when they came back and how that can never ever happen again. Misdirected activism can have consequences.
I agree 100%.

I wish I could have been there when idiots called returning soldiers "baby killers" or spit on them...because I would have punched those people in the face.

Thank god, people's attitude have changed for the better. Even those who don't agree with Iraq wouldn't criticize those who fought there.

Which asks the question, is this relevant? Do any of you think troops have been treated unfairly by the general populous apon their return? I ask this sincerely, because I haven't personally read about any cases of this. If there have been cases I'd like to be informed.

I think this speaks volumes during a time of a war that is vastly unpopular among Americans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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