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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I only like spoon feeding you guys my personal screw-ups in dog training. :yes:

Any input here appreciated. My dog is whistle trained as follows:

1 blast = Sit.
2 blasts - Continue/take cast
3 blasts = Here

I use a mega whistle. The one thing I did not teach and now realize I need to (for a variety of reasons) is to hunt the area of a fall. I will also be teaching sit-to-flush (but that's beside the point).

How would you begin teaching hunting the fall area given the current whistle commands and would you use a different whistle for that or try to distinguish a 1 blast versus a trill? I am afraid this might confuse the dog though at this point.

Dog currently runs multiple marks and geographically simple land and water cold blinds (to about 100 yards).

Thanks and let this be a good example of why you follow a really good program early on! :yes:
 

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I'm not sure you can accomplish that through a whistle. I'm assuming that the dog is able to handle? I would say it is more of a marking issue. We only use a whistle when handling. If someone has a procedure for this I'd like to hear also.
 

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Well Al,
I couldn't come up with a good answer for ya' so I spent the last 20 minutes goin' through all of my books,,,, Nothin',,,,
I think you're going to have to invent something.

When I knock a bird down and Boom doesn't find it immediately in the AOF, he'll usually hunt for it on his own, but if he "POPS" I tell him to "Hunt it up"
He seems to do well with it.

Other than that, I guess I'm useless to ya' ! :tongue:
 

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Have you tried waving your arms around yelling god da**it, it's right ****ing there, where the hell are you going.

I'm having the same problem and just planned on going back to basics with the lead but I never thought about incorporating a whistle command. I use a long whistle for sit a short whistle to change direction (he looks for a hand signal for direction also) and three shorts for come. when he leaves the area of the fall I sometimes get him back on the area by changing his direction back then sitting him when he is close, this doesnt work great but I think it could if we worked it more.
 

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What in the world is the two whistle blast Al????? :smile:

I only use the 1 whistle blast to "sit" & the 3 whistle blast to come in..

Marking and hunting the area of the fall you don't want to handle your dog..If you send the dog on a mark and he leaves the general area have a buddy get the dogs attention and help the dog out..Don't handle the dog!!

Remember a "Marking Test" in a hunt test is a test to evaluate the dogs marking ability!!! Handling can disqualify you...

I will use a a "sit" whistle blast for steady to flush but it is best to train the dog to be steady without the blast...
 

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jehler said:
Have you tried waving your arms around yelling god da**it, it's right ****ing there, where the hell are you going.
BWAH HA HA HA ,
There's your answer Al ! :tongue:

BTW,
I think Darin was readin' my mind with this question :

What in the world is the two whistle blast Al????? smile
 

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HNTFSH said:
Plus...another DHC member with a Duck Toller won't make 2 Tollers seem so odd. :yes:
Not sure why I hang out with you Lab guys -- especially the brown one's :biggrin:

Ok -not sure - why the 2 whistle to continue / take cast -- no need on this one.

For hunting the AOF - pretty easy to train :thumbsup:

Voice command is "hunt it up" -- whistle command is a trill. Do this when the dog is right at the mark just before pick up and they will pick the command up real fast.

Then work the trill in with the dirt clod drill and this will keep them working hard in the area.

Watch out using a trill in a hunt test as this can be interpreted as putting the whistle on your dog. Better to use the voice command.

Hope this helps.
 

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Hollering hunt em up may be fine under 100 yds but what do you do at 150,200,300 yds. You could do a trill but when you breath through that whistle you just handled. I would say repetition with marks. If you're not going to run any tests or trials and just are training for hunting yelling hunt em up or a trill should do just fine. But if you plan on doing anything more with the dog I would not suggest them.

Doug
 

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mlinc said:
Hollering hunt em up may be fine under 100 yds but what do you do at 150,200,300 yds. You could do a trill but when you breath through that whistle you just handled. I would say repetition with marks. If you're not going to run any tests or trials and just are training for hunting yelling hunt em up or a trill should do just fine. But if you plan on doing anything more with the dog I would not suggest them.
Doug
Doug I think we both agree on only using this for hunting situations and after teaching it I rarely use it. Teaching the dog to mark and then stick in the area working the mark location with dirt clod or cow pie drills is better. Can you get away with using a trill or pick up whistle at a test -- yes with some judges -- no with others.

However the question was how do you train for it -- explanation given.

Hugh
 

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You start the marking drill in a dirt field with with a bird. Now 2nd mark pull the bird and substitute a dirt clod. Toss the clod in the air and looks like a mark -- dog hunts the area and you keep bird back. Keep encouraging the dog to work the area hard and at some point when the dog is turned away drop the bird in the AOF. Training this way encourages the dog to hunt the fall area hard as he knows he will eventually find the bird. :thumbsup:

Cow pie drill is for us western folk who have prairie pasture with lots of ..... ---- use same as dirt clod :rofl:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It was hard enough finding Bird Boys...now I gotta find Cow Poop Boys???? "Hey Jimmy, can ya throw some cow pies for me and Sonny tommorrow night?" :yes: That said...great drill!

Thanks for the comments one and all. The question is all hunting related in terms of the AOF and queuing the dog for it.

Marks aren't a problem nor is hunting up a fall...as long as the dog to got to see the mark or we are both in the AOF with a hunt it up command.

But there are many times in a waterfowling situation where the dog doesn't see the fall (he's in a blind, I have him parked away from me. it's a double with birds falling different directions (2 shooters and he misses one of the marks)...any number of reasons....

OR

As we move to Sit-to-Flush on upland he no longer has the luxury of being under the bird and doesn't always have the benefit of seeing the fall.

Now in a HT you KNOW for sure where the blind is and it isn't creeping away crippled or tucking itself in a log jam so handling to a defined spot can be done with pinpoint accuracy.

What I'd like to achieve is (I think) is handling to the AOF (a blind) and then use a AOF command. A. I don't want to over-handle the dog hunting and B. don't want to handle the dog on something that's either moving or 'fell' in an undefined area and end up handling to the wrong area - when the dogs hunt 'em'up drive and ability would serve us better.

The idea of queuing the AOF command via whistle is based on this being a remote command...wind, distance, etc...being a consideration.

On the 2 blast question... :huh: ...you guys are right, I rarely use it. But since I had a hole between 1 blast and 3 blasts...I trained the 2 blast basically as a back or over command (in conjunction with the arm) for long distance casting.

In summary - here's an example from this year. Woody hunting...I shoot one over the water, dog marks no problem. Buddy shoots one from the same group, it's hit - soars over a deep creek into the woods and comes down. He sees the AOF but neither I or the dog do. I can't handle to that with precision nor can we physically get to the area. What I'd like to do is send the dog on the blind 100 yards into the woods (rough area of fall by description) and then command an AOF so the dog hunts that area till the bird is found.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Brydog said:
jehler said:
Have you tried waving your arms around yelling god da**it, it's right ****ing there, where the hell are you going.
BWAH HA HA HA ,
There's your answer Al ! :tongue:

BTW,
I think Darin was readin' my mind with this question :

What in the world is the two whistle blast Al????? smile
Both you and Darin will be wanting signed copies of my new release "SmartWhistle" sometime very soon. :yes: (sorry Evan). :oops:
 

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Horse poop works great as well... :yes: Livestock poop works great as a diversion for an open field blind as well as with marking!!!

Now in a hunting situation where there are multiple birds knocked down it is sometimes hard to pinpoint falls so this is what I do..I will send the dog on the Trail command with "Find It"...Sometimes you have to run a blind to the general area and then stop the dog and command "Find It" If indeed it is a LONG range I command" trail and find it" by lining the dog up in the general straight location..
 

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HNTFSH said:
Brydog said:
jehler said:
Have you tried waving your arms around yelling god da**it, it's right ****ing there, where the hell are you going.
BWAH HA HA HA ,
There's your answer Al ! :tongue:

BTW,
I think Darin was readin' my mind with this question :

What in the world is the two whistle blast Al????? smile
Both you and Darin will be wanting signed copies of my new release "SmartWhistle" sometime very soon. :yes: (sorry Evan). :oops:
The "HNTFSH Super Whistle Stop Shuffle"!!!! :yes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Goosehunterdog said:
Now in a hunting situation where there are multiple birds knocked down it is sometimes hard to pinpoint falls so this is what I do..I will send the dog on the Trail command with "Find It"...Sometimes you have to run a blind to the general area and then stop the dog and command "Find It" If indeed it is a LONG range I command" trail and find it" by lining the dog up in the general straight location..
2 tollers said:
You start the marking drill in a dirt field with with a bird. Now 2nd mark pull the bird and substitute a dirt clod. Toss the clod in the air and looks like a mark -- dog hunts the area and you keep bird back. Keep encouraging the dog to work the area hard and at some point when the dog is turned away drop the bird in the AOF. Training this way encourages the dog to hunt the fall area hard as he knows he will eventually find the bird. :thumbsup:

Cow pie drill is for us western folk who have prairie pasture with lots of ..... ---- use same as dirt clod :rofl:
Both great ideas and I get it but one speaks to running a blind to the AOF and the other speaks to working this on a Mark.

Would it be best to start with the dirt clod mark drill to get the dog famaliar and THEN move to the same set-up running a blind to the AOF?

On the Mark set-up - to withhold the bird and then plant it after a good hunt 'em up I would need to be in the AOF. Would this effect my intent to teach hunting the AOF with me being at a distance (remote)? I don't want the dog to associate the AOF based on MY location.
 
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