[ErnieR]

Hello all, although I’ve been blowing I guess what they term as J Frames for over 40yrs and won enough calling titles and played in both fields and open water to know single reeds require far more precision vs a good ol sloppy double for hunting, Now I’m hoping seasoned veterans can help shed some much needed light on what direction I should go on purchasing my first cut down.
I’ve been looking at the mondo line and was ready to call down to the team at RNT to pick their brain about what call would possibly best suit my needs.
At 62 I certainly don’t have the same lung capacity I once did and honestly I’m not so sure I want to work that hard to blow a duck call as I hear some of these call’s require to operate

I think a true cut down based off the original D-2 Olt are single Reed and if possible I’d like to keep things authentic but are there companies out there that offer and easier blowing cut downs than the next ???

Appreciate the help and Thanks in advance

 

[Rick Hall]

Gonna have to make up your mind over whether you want an "authentic" cutdown or "easier to run". The heart of a "cutdown" call is a thicker .014 reed, as opposed to a j-frame's .010 reed, so an "authentic" cutdown is inherently harder to run. But there are some out there who'll pop a .010 reed in their "cutdown" call's body....

 

[ErnieR]

Hi Rick and thanks for the reply. Being I’ve never blown either, I’m not sure what I want or more so what I’m capable of operating. Are the original types anywhere in the same ballpark in regards to air required as a harder tuned short Reed goose call ??

 

[Rick Hall]

Afraid that's too much of an "apples to oranges" comparison for me to make. I was running speck calls long before picking up a short reed Canada call, so that transition couldn't have been simpler. While the transition from running single reed J-frames to cutdowns left me winded when I tried to run the later as loud and long as the former. I had to change my air presentation to initially gate notes with my tongue to build the extra pressure it takes to get that thicker reed moving. While my normal J-frame presentation's reference word might be expressed as low tongued "whack," I have to switch to an initially high gating tongue "dack" to pop a cutdown reed into action and keep it going long term without busting a lung.

Fwiw, though, my cutdown experiment was disappointing, in that I could find no real advantage in them, despite the physics of sound waves dictating that their low frequency tones should be heard farther than higher frequency tones. I began with cutdowns from Black Ops, Rolling Thunder and an early RNT Mondo Jim worked over for me, ended up favoring the later and working with it for three years in Southwest Louisiana's "duck rich" environment before deciding I was wasting time and energy on it. Simply didn't show greater leverage at distance than my long time favorite MVP and wasn't nearly as versatile or fun to run. (Another relatively crisp and clean toned J-frame, Alan Stanley Deceiver, has since demonstrated appreciably more reach, when needed, than the MVP but isn't as versatile or fun to run, either.)

 

[ErnieR]

Afraid that's too much of an "apples to oranges" comparison for me to make. I was running speck calls long before picking up a short reed Canada call, so that transition couldn't have been simpler. While the transition from running single reed J-frames to cutdowns left me winded when I tried to run the later as loud and long as the former. I had to change my air presentation to initially gate notes with my tongue to build the extra pressure it takes to get that thicker reed moving. While my normal J-frame presentation's reference word might be expressed as low tongued "whack," I have to switch to an initially high gating tongue "dack" to pop a cutdown reed into action and keep it going long term without busting a lung.

Fwiw, though, my cutdown experiment was disappointing, in that I could find no real advantage in them, despite the physics of sound waves dictating that their low frequency tones should be heard farther than higher frequency tones. I began with cutdowns from Black Ops, Rolling Thunder and an early RNT Mondo Jim worked over for me, ended up favoring the later and working with it for three years in Southwest Louisiana's "duck rich" environment before deciding I was wasting time and energy on it. Simply didn't show greater leverage at distance than my long time favorite MVP and wasn't nearly as versatile or fun to run. (Another relatively crisp and clean toned J-frame, Alan Stanley Deceiver, has since demonstrated appreciably more reach, when needed, than the MVP but isn't as versatile or fun to run, either.)

Hey Rick, I can’t Thank you enough for your knowledgeable response !!!!

I think you’ve maybe just saved me a pile of money and time spent in an attempt in finding the “right” cut down for me. Quite possibly that I may never be completely satisfied and knowing me, I’d be cutting/shaving reeds and worse, how many inserts would I surely ruin hoping to find that magical one !!! may never happen.

Funny you mentioning your preference blowing a single reed MVP, got me to thinking of the few of my custom cocobolo competition calls Ive have stashed away all these years, I suppose had I kept them on my lanyard while afield I would’ve maintained proficiency on them, yet guiding and hunting pretty much daily back then in the early 90’s, getting my hands on what I feel have been quality double reeds for me, (Zink Acrylic and Grounds cocobolo Sweet meat) allowed me to get the job done without the precision required with the single reed offerings.
Up here on the big waters of our Great Lakes both Lake St Clair and Long Point Bay the hunting pressure is substantial, I’m sure no worse then where you are, biggest difference is the sub zero temperature we have and keeping calls from freezing up bc sadly I am of the slobbering class. I know how far the birds can hear a highball from a quality single reed and the great memories of turning high flyers on a mission heading somewhere else once they got an earful from a mile or more away, and I guess I’ve convinced myself all these years I didn’t want to wake that hard blowing a single reed afield but just maybe i should give it another go.
Anyone particular MVT you might suggest??

 

[Rick Hall]

...I guess I’ve convinced myself all these years I didn’t want to wake that hard blowing a single reed afield but just maybe i should give it another go.
Anyone particular MVT you might suggest??

If running a single-reed J-frame seems like work to you, I'd think running a cutdown would little doubt seem absolute drudge work.

The MVP I've referenced is marketed as RNT's "contest" call and has surely won more "World" stage titles than any other, but I've found it as effective of a hunting call as any of the many others guiding every open day since '84 has allowed me to audition: affords tremendous range up and down scale and great fun to run. But they've also a reputation for sticking on "slobbering" folks, so it may not suit you at all. (Keeping relatively fresh cork in mine has been enough to prevent that issue in my case.)

Anyway, if what you're using works for you, you might be time and money ahead just sticking with it.

 

[ErnieR]

If running a single-reed J-frame seems like work to you, I'd think running a cutdown would little doubt seem absolute drudge work.

The MVP I've referenced is marketed as RNT's "contest" call and has surely won more "World" stage titles than any other, but I've found it as effective of a hunting call as any of the many others guiding every open day since '84 has allowed me to audition: affords tremendous range up and down scale and great fun to run. But they've also a reputation for sticking on "slobbering" folks, so it may not suit you at all. (Keeping relatively fresh cork in mine has been enough to prevent that issue in my case.)

Anyway, if what you're using works for you, you might be time and money ahead just sticking with it.

My feelings with blowing a single reed as a hunting call vs a say a double, being I’m not spending the time practicing ahead of time, we both know if the tongue isn’t cutting to the thousands of an inch and positioned exactly right, you’re not in ringing in resonance whereas with a double is certainly more forgiving, but maybe it’s time to get back on my game and try a good single again. Is there anyone at RNT you’d suggest talking with at RNT ?? Thanks again. Ernie

 

[Rick Hall]

Jim was my contact, and friend, going all the way back to when Buck Gardner had his deal with Butch, before John bought it. Now that he's moved on to Drake and Butch has passed, I've no contact I'd be confident recommending.

 

[Gage04]

Hey everyone couldn’t figure out how to make my own forum probably because I just made this account. Anyways I’ve been seeing on some forums about a cut down call called DFB and black ops DFB and DFB 50-11 cut down calls and I cannot for the life of me find out where to order one from. Any info someone might have about this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Rick Hall]

Hey everyone couldn’t figure out how to make my own forum probably because I just made this account. Anyways I’ve been seeing on some forums about a cut down call called DFB and black ops DFB and DFB 50-11 cut down calls and I cannot for the life of me find out where to order one from. Any info someone might have about this would be greatly appreciated.

Check back on your Refuge post.

 

[Ange]

Mike Fleeman in Arkansas. Good man. He makes them periodically. He makes an actual cut down call not a cut down styke call. He is in the car business. Not sure where now.

https://m.facebook.com/100057847651550/

I am a purveyor of the actual cutdown Duck call——one having the modified hard rubber keyhole plug with a molded plastic shell. They are not for everyone. They follow the mantra of “ you learn how to run it, we don’t dumb it down to accomodate you “. I call them Blue Monkeys. It takes so much air to learn how to run one, you get dizzy and see Blue Monkeys darting across the sky. Part in parcel of the simple routine——-loud calling then you shut up and let them come in and finish with chatter, quacks and three to four note whines is built upon them being tuned on the high side. I hear a lot of people who run cut down style calls but they sound like they are using a J Frame. They are wonderful callers without question. There are few running an actual cut down or cut down style call as a cut down call. Simple routine.

The Blue Monkey