If it's the size of a sneakboat (<14ft) and you're gonna be going relatively slow anyway, probably doesn't matter. Anything bigger than that, you'll want a hull designed for a mud motor. All these people keep putting mud motors on outboard hulls, then they realize it was a bad idea because it wasn't designed for that. A mud hull should have the transom back behind the main compartment of the hull. When you look at the manufacturers' websites it'll indicate the type of motor it's intended for.
And mud hulls tend to be made sturdier than outboard hulls. It's gonna get abused more, therefore you want something extremely solid.

 

If it's the size of a sneakboat (<14ft) and you're gonna be going relatively slow anyway, probably doesn't matter. Anything bigger than that, you'll want a hull designed for a mud motor. All these people keep putting mud motors on outboard hulls, then they realize it was a bad idea because it wasn't designed for that. A mud hull should have the transom back behind the main compartment of the hull. When you look at the manufacturers' websites it'll indicate the type of motor it's intended for.
And mud hulls tend to be made sturdier than outboard hulls. It's gonna get abused more, therefore you want something extremely solid.

Ditto. Slick bottoms.

Also configuration of boat depends on if you want a long tail or a surface drive.

Longtails works best in long and narrow boats. Surface drives, wider and longer. Either works best with slick bottoms. Longtails give you more leverage; but will beat you up and, surface drives drive better.

I have a longtail and it doesn't perform great for a number of factors. But it gets the job done.

I've been looking to upgrade for the past number of years; but there's always something to spend money on other than a duck boat.

I will say this, get bigger than you think you need in both boat and horsepower. Also, consider the areas your predominantly hunt. If you have to cross a lot of deep water and only a short drive in lower water, consider an outboard and trolling motor or push pole. Whereas if you're in mud, weeds, and backwaters 70-80% of the time then you may consider a mud motor.

Another thing to think about is weight and launching from makeshift ramps. If that's the case, get something that will carry you a load and tell everyone else to get their own. Lol (Yes I've considered this too).

 

If it's the size of a sneakboat (<14ft) and you're gonna be going relatively slow anyway, probably doesn't matter. Anything bigger than that, you'll want a hull designed for a mud motor. All these people keep putting mud motors on outboard hulls, then they realize it was a bad idea because it wasn't designed for that. A mud hull should have the transom back behind the main compartment of the hull. When you look at the manufacturers' websites it'll indicate the type of motor it's intended for.
And mud hulls tend to be made sturdier than outboard hulls. It's gonna get abused more, therefore you want something extremely solid.

I think the only part I'm missing here is that part about the transom being behind the main compartment. I've never been in a mud boat and the transom I'm thinking about is in a Tracker Grizzly. From looking at pictures of boats (excel, havoc, mud branded boats) are you referring the way the boat is shaped leading into the transom?

 

If it's the size of a sneakboat (<14ft) and you're gonna be going relatively slow anyway, probably doesn't matter. Anything bigger than that, you'll want a hull designed for a mud motor. All these people keep putting mud motors on outboard hulls, then they realize it was a bad idea because it wasn't designed for that. A mud hull should have the transom back behind the main compartment of the hull. When you look at the manufacturers' websites it'll indicate the type of motor it's intended for.
And mud hulls tend to be made sturdier than outboard hulls. It's gonna get abused more, therefore you want something extremely solid.

I think the only part I'm missing here is that part about the transom being behind the main compartment. I've never been in a mud boat and the transom I'm thinking about is in a Tracker Grizzly. From looking at pictures of boats (excel, havoc, mud branded boats) are you referring the way the boat is shaped leading into the transom?

Those are not mud boats. A mud boat is a true flat hull, no crimps, 5086 grade .125 aluminum bottom with longnitudinal stringers running from bow to stern with a reinforced transom. They are built far stronger because of the abuse a mudmotor will put on the transom and are also built with a specific transom angle and bottom to make sure you get proper water flow to the prop which will not happen with any run of the mill Jon boat or aforementioned hull (despite the advertising).

The only mass produced true mud hulls are gatortail, gatortrax, prodrive, and go devil hulls. There are also a few custom builders (uncle J, prodigy, timber creek, to name a few) that also build them.

Do you have to have a mud hull for a surface drive to work? No, but you will lose performance even if you have one with the right transom height and angle, not to mention that the hull is not built properly or strong enough to handle what a surface drive will do to it hanging off the back.

Though I don't agree completely with his argument between a square, round, or triple taper chine, the rest of this video is spot on in explaining the hulls.

I have a gatortail extreme, but have also had or ridden in all the other major brands and have also been in pairings of war eagle, havoc, trackers, etc and the difference between the right true mud hull paired with the right motor vs some other hull and a surface drive is substantial.

Also not sure what was being referenced about the transom being behind the hull or something to that effect? A huntdeck/sport deck is there just to provide a step in and also prevent wash in when running reverse in mud, but that is an option, not a requirement. Prodrive and gatortail both build boats without hunt decks (though not my preference).

You should spend your time asking questions and researching on mudmotortalk.com where you will get far better and informed opinions.

 

SeaArk has a 1754 mudrunner or some size similar to that, I haven't seen many reviews/opinions on it but I like the layout. War Eagle also has the Gladiator. As far as I know Tracker does not make a mud hull.

If I was to buy brand new it would be custom. Probably Uncle J. Saw a mutual friend's in action last season and it would go where my friend's Excel could not. And from what I've heard you can get them cheaper than a name brand.
But when I do get one it'll probably be a combination of finding a good deal on a used one and getting a layout/hull/motor that I like.

 

Here's an example of a real mud hull (although after being in my friend's excel F86, I'd rather buy a different brand).
http://www.excel-marine.com/f4-shallow-water.html

 

SeaArk has a 1754 mudrunner or some size similar to that, I haven't seen many reviews/opinions on it but I like the layout. War Eagle also has the Gladiator. As far as I know Tracker does not make a mud hull.

If I was to buy brand new it would be custom. Probably Uncle J. Saw a mutual friend's in action last season and it would go where my friend's Excel could not. And from what I've heard you can get them cheaper than a name brand.
But when I do get one it'll probably be a combination of finding a good deal on a used one and getting a layout/hull/motor that I like.

If I remember correctly, sea ark's mudrunner is overly heavy and is notoriously slow compared to like sized mud hulls. Unless they dramatically changed something, there was a lot of hate towards them. I also read where it's a two piece hull, and one came apart right down the middle because it was "being used on open water, which it's not designed to do".

http://mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopi ... =4&t=39105

As for the gladiator, I have seen it online but haven't really heard legitimate reviews. Only reviews I've heard are from people who haven't ever run anything else so it's not a good comparison.

The tracker grizzly isn't designed for a mud motor and is very heavy, not longitudinally braced, etc. Their topper series is a riveted tin can that would work with a low hP longtail for pushing through light grass but that's it.

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Here's an example of a real mud hull (although after being in my friend's excel F86, I'd rather buy a different brand).
http://www.excel-marine.com/f4-shallow-water.html

That's .100 gauge aluminum on an allegedly slow hull. Plus it has Freddy King's face on it so subtract another 100 pts in credibility and +200 pts in flat bill hat and nickel back Instagram hunter appearance.

I haven't run one of the F86s, but I also see no reason to when you can get a better and more proven hull for the same or less.

Agree on Uncle J. He well may be building a hull for me down the road if I ever decide to move on from my GT Extreme.

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Okcduckguy - Bluesky knows his stuff when it comes to mudboats, if there's anyone on DHC to inquire about mudboats, he's the guy. I've hunted out of one quite a few times, but just the Excel F86 so I just know some basic info. My buddy has had one for a little over a year, and although it's not a terrible rig, he will not be buying an Excel or a Mudbuddy again.
A couple or few years down the road when I'm in the market for one I'll probably be asking him (bluesky) questions again.

 

I appreciate all the information from both of you. All of the boats I have ever ran have never been so specific as to what we are discussing and I will be the first to admit I know nothing mud hulls and motors. I just know that some of the places we have been wanting to get into have not been accessible by jackplate/outboard combination. Another big thing that has me interested in mud motors is that amount of caution that has to been exercised when running an outboard through a stump field and as Shoveler knows, in E OK a lot of the lakes are heavy in stumps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that mud motors with the correct hull can take an absolute beating.

 

I appreciate all the information from both of you. All of the boats I have ever ran have never been so specific as to what we are discussing and I will be the first to admit I know nothing mud hulls and motors. I just know that some of the places we have been wanting to get into have not been accessible by jackplate/outboard combination. Another big thing that has me interested in mud motors is that amount of caution that has to been exercised when running an outboard through a stump field and as Shoveler knows, in E OK a lot of the lakes are heavy in stumps. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that mud motors with the correct hull can take an absolute beating.

Yes. The 5086 .125 or 3/16 bottom from a single sheet is what you want, but depending on what types of timber/stumps are would drive my decision on what motor. For heavy cypress type swamps, a 1742 godevil with a 23 godevil LT is awesome, but for most people who want to cover stumps, mud, vegetation, etc and be a jack of all trades, a 1754 or 1854 prodrive or gatortail with a 35 stage 1 or higher is the best all around IMO.

I've had both, and every now and again wish I still had a 16-18ft barrow boat with a LT but it's rare. My GT extreme with a stage 1 build (heads ported and polished/ decked/ SS single piece valves), billet Cam, and Exhaust is a plenty powerful and durable/ long lasting build that lets me hunt 3 guys, bowfish 3-4, and fish 2-3 guys year round.

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I agree with he custom built boat deal. I have a Timber Creek with a stage 3.5 GTR on it. I'm happy with mine and would buy another TCB but I will tell you to research as much as you can before you buy one. Even once you get narrowed down to hulls that are legitimately built for a mud motor, those different manufacturers hulls differ a lot in what they do best. For stance, mine is a double tapered chine and does not slide at all. A square chine like a Gator Tail boat or other similar boat will slide but will be faster than mine. I did a lot of research before I settled on mine and i absolutely love it. I use it all the time for everything. It is plenty fast and hauls a heavy load very good. I can haul 5 people in it with hunting gear and still jump up and run over 30. It also doubles as my bass boat and whatever else I do in a boat. I'm from FL and used it to fish for saltwater fish and hunt gators too. It's an all around great boat. You should do your research and figure out exactly what you want to use it for and find the best boat for you. I'll be in the Tulsa area permanently in a few weeks and if you want to see a Timber Creek in person just let me know. We can even go run it.

 

I agree with he custom built boat deal. I have a Timber Creek with a stage 3.5 GTR on it. I'm happy with mine and would buy another TCB but I will tell you to research as much as you can before you buy one. Even once you get narrowed down to hulls that are legitimately built for a mud motor, those different manufacturers hulls differ a lot in what they do best. For stance, mine is a double tapered chine and does not slide at all. A square chine like a Gator Tail boat or other similar boat will slide but will be faster than mine. I did a lot of research before I settled on mine and i absolutely love it. I use it all the time for everything. It is plenty fast and hauls a heavy load very good. I can haul 5 people in it with hunting gear and still jump up and run over 30. It also doubles as my bass boat and whatever else I do in a boat. I'm from FL and used it to fish for saltwater fish and hunt gators too. It's an all around great boat. You should do your research and figure out exactly what you want to use it for and find the best boat for you. I'll be in the Tulsa area permanently in a few weeks and if you want to see a Timber Creek in person just let me know. We can even go run it.

Gator Tail Gator series are square chine, the Gator Tail Extremes (most common) is a double taper, exactly as yours.

For your "3.5" I assume you're referencing a delta 3.5 package? What specifically does Calen do for his 3.5 builds because he describes and categorizes his work differently than most others. He does good work, I just can't ever remember his various "levels" that well compared to what most call them.

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Question, where do jet drive outboards and airboats fit into all this vs the mud motors and pro drives?

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Question, where do jet drive outboards and airboats fit into all this vs the mud motors and pro drives?

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Jets are for shallow gravel and rocky areas. They get clogged from vegetation and thick mud fast. I've seen them in rivers in the North East (rappahannock), Alaska, etc.

Airboats are great for mud, sand, veggies, etc but arent as commonly used because they are bigger, louder, and can't really be hunted from because that would be one heck of s blind required to cover the fan.

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IIRC, the history on MM's in this country started with Warren Coco (Go-Devil) when he was stationed in SE Asia during 'nam and observed the long tail motors the locals were using in the river deltas,etc. The story goes he brought one back and used as a template to design and patent the original Go-Devil LT giving him a lock on the market for 17 plus years. Mr. Coco is from south Louisiana and the mud/marsh conditions there are very similar to that found in Thailand in that the gumbo mud is somewhat like wet oatmeal whereby the prop/shaft of a MM easily goes down into it so you can get purchase (bite) with the blades to generate propulsion. The clay bottoms often found here in Oklahoma are not conducive to such and the almost pure sand in many river channels will abraid the prop blades to a nub in often only a few miles. Having tried four (4) MM's so far, this is based upon my own experience.

As mentioned above, a slick bottom hull is much more appropriate for running MM's than what several boat manufacturers are doing with slapping a MM on a hull that has been extruded (to form the keelsons) thus really designed for OB motor usage and not MM's. Not sure if it's out of ignorance or just cutting cost corners by trying to call an OB hull a MM hull. Many even have the bottom painted with the same flat finish paint as the sides, further creating resistance (drag) and impediment to top end speed. A friend stuck his 19' Excel (45HP Mudbuddy SD) on a flat near the North Canadian on a August teal scouting trip. The power trim would force the prop section down into the clay based mud but would only move the hull a few inches before blowing out a hole in the clay and losing forward propulsion. It took the three of them almost two hours of pushing to get into deep enough water where the extruded hull could break from the clay mud's grip. No bueno.

As the reservoirs of NE Oklahoma continue to get shallower due to ongoing silt action, other means of water conveyance are being investigated. Airboats are designed for grassy shallow areas and unless running massive HP/weight ratio will stick on sand and other surfaces. They will beat the crap out of the passengers in even a moderate chop and have been banned from several areas because of the noise pollution. Currently, am exploring the feasibility of Hovercraft as an alternative to MM/AB rigs for the ever increasing clay flats on our reservoir system. Bottom line is that no "one size fits all" watercraft solution exists hence the necessity of a fleet of different types.

 

Good post. As you said, there is definitely no "one size fits all" solution. Eventually I plan on having a mud rig and an outboard rig. Although the outboard rig will be equipped for mostly fishing.

 

Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

 

Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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That's something I've been wondering, so a mud hull runs just as good with the outboard? What brands do you suggest in that price range?

 

Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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That's something I've been wondering, so a mud hull runs just as good with the outboard? What brands do you suggest in that price range?

They run really well with them. Many guys I know have a spare 40-75 hp outboard that they toss on to fish, etc. The good part is, you can pull a SD off and swap it for an outboard in like 45 mins. It's commonly done.

Personally, I'd stick with the main name brands. They are popular and respected for a reason. I'm a gatortail owner (1854 extreme with a 3/16 hull and 35 stage 1) that I enjoy, but I also like prodrive motors as well. Not a fan of mudbuddy for personal reasons, and am unsure about the new FNR go devils but didn't want an older one because of the lack of a clutch.

You may not find one brand new for that, but it's not hard at all to find one that's barely been used for that price. Honestly, a surface drive isn't really broken in till 50 hrs (see above about valves, etc), and so a 2 year old motor is fine and a full setup can be found for under that price very commonly.

As for hulls, pairing the hull and motor is very important for a SD (see posts above) but a hull from Gator Tail, Gator Trax, Prodrive, Prodigy, and Uncle J would be my most recommended but there are other good ones as well. All will run well with an outboard as well.

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Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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That's something I've been wondering, so a mud hull runs just as good with the outboard? What brands do you suggest in that price range?

They run really well with them. Many guys I know have a spare 40-75 hp outboard that they toss on to fish, etc. The good part is, you can pull a SD off and swap it for an outboard in like 45 mins. It's commonly done.

Personally, I'd stick with the main name brands. They are popular and respected for a reason. I'm a gatortail owner (1854 extreme with a 3/16 hull and 35 stage 1) that I enjoy, but I also like prodrive motors as well. Not a fan of mudbuddy for personal reasons, and am unsure about the new FNR go devils but didn't want an older one because of the lack of a clutch.

You may not find one brand new for that, but it's not hard at all to find one that's barely been used for that price. Honestly, a surface drive isn't really broken in till 50 hrs (see above about valves, etc), and so a 2 year old motor is fine and a full setup can be found for under that price very commonly.

As for hulls, pairing the hull and motor is very important for a SD (see posts above) but a hull from Gator Tail, Gator Trax, Prodrive, Prodigy, and Uncle J would be my most recommended but there are other good ones as well. All will run well with an outboard as well.

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What about Edge boats? They're advertised as being able to run SD or outboard?

 

Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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That's something I've been wondering, so a mud hull runs just as good with the outboard? What brands do you suggest in that price range?

They run really well with them. Many guys I know have a spare 40-75 hp outboard that they toss on to fish, etc. The good part is, you can pull a SD off and swap it for an outboard in like 45 mins. It's commonly done.

Personally, I'd stick with the main name brands. They are popular and respected for a reason. I'm a gatortail owner (1854 extreme with a 3/16 hull and 35 stage 1) that I enjoy, but I also like prodrive motors as well. Not a fan of mudbuddy for personal reasons, and am unsure about the new FNR go devils but didn't want an older one because of the lack of a clutch.

You may not find one brand new for that, but it's not hard at all to find one that's barely been used for that price. Honestly, a surface drive isn't really broken in till 50 hrs (see above about valves, etc), and so a 2 year old motor is fine and a full setup can be found for under that price very commonly.

As for hulls, pairing the hull and motor is very important for a SD (see posts above) but a hull from Gator Tail, Gator Trax, Prodrive, Prodigy, and Uncle J would be my most recommended but there are other good ones as well. All will run well with an outboard as well.

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What about Edge boats? They're advertised as being able to run SD or outboard?

From their website they are clearly not an actual mudboat despite their name. Could you put a surface drive in the back and move in a forward direction? Sure, but it is far thinner gauge aluminum, and a V hull down it's entirety so performance will be lost and it's not as strong.

Would it break a few branches in Arkansas, sure, but I can't see it performing as well nor lasting as long as an actual mud hull. They may be decent boats for some applications, but if you're going to get a surface drive to run where a surface drive is best, that's not the boat I'd recommend.

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Lots of good info in this post. Been wanting to buy a boat for a few years but things keep getting in the way (bought a house, wife went back to school) so now targeting end of this year hopefully. Been looking at a 17 or 18 foot weldbilt or lowe roughneck with an outboard but it's seeming that with each year more spots will require a MM or surface drive. Makes it tough to decide, especially when spending $8-15k.

Honestly for that price you can get a good mud hull, and if you decide you dont like or need the surface drive, you can sell the surface drive an run an outboard on the back just as well, but now you have a fat better built and rugged hull than a Lowe or weldbuilt.

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That's something I've been wondering, so a mud hull runs just as good with the outboard? What brands do you suggest in that price range?

They run really well with them. Many guys I know have a spare 40-75 hp outboard that they toss on to fish, etc. The good part is, you can pull a SD off and swap it for an outboard in like 45 mins. It's commonly done.

Personally, I'd stick with the main name brands. They are popular and respected for a reason. I'm a gatortail owner (1854 extreme with a 3/16 hull and 35 stage 1) that I enjoy, but I also like prodrive motors as well. Not a fan of mudbuddy for personal reasons, and am unsure about the new FNR go devils but didn't want an older one because of the lack of a clutch.

You may not find one brand new for that, but it's not hard at all to find one that's barely been used for that price. Honestly, a surface drive isn't really broken in till 50 hrs (see above about valves, etc), and so a 2 year old motor is fine and a full setup can be found for under that price very commonly.

As for hulls, pairing the hull and motor is very important for a SD (see posts above) but a hull from Gator Tail, Gator Trax, Prodrive, Prodigy, and Uncle J would be my most recommended but there are other good ones as well. All will run well with an outboard as well.

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What about Edge boats? They're advertised as being able to run SD or outboard?

From their website they are clearly not an actual mudboat despite their name. Could you put a surface drive in the back and move in a forward direction? Sure, but it is far thinner gauge aluminum, and a V hull down it's entirety so performance will be lost and it's not as strong.

Would it break a few branches in Arkansas, sure, but I can't see it performing as well nor lasting as long as an actual mud hull. They may be decent boats for some applications, but if you're going to get a surface drive to run where a surface drive is best, that's not the boat I'd recommend.

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Makes sense. You say these used mid boats are easy to come by, whereas the best places to look? Ive seen a few used 1854s for under $15k but the motors have 300+ hours..

 

.100 gauge upgrade? What the heck is their standard gauge? Lol. Should be at least .125 if it's an "upgrade". And this may have been mentioned before, but I'd get .125 for sure for a mud boat.