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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What is with all the turmoil between the different hunting groups? Spring hunts for this against no spring hunts. Dog and bait hunters for bears against stalk and wait hunters. Don't the different hunting factions see that by fighting amongst them selves opens a wider door for the anti hunting groups? United we stand divided we fall. Ever hear that concept? Even in the duck hunting comunity I see dissention in the ranks, some want to ban motorized decoys others want to ban the use of layout boats, If layout boats are so bad then so are all layout type blinds. If motorized decoys are that bad and we can get rid of them then maybe all forms of decoying are bad. Maybe if you cann't run it down on foot or sneek up on it and dispatch it with your bare hands and teeth then you shouldn't be hunting it at all. I think that it is high time all hunters weather you hunt deer/bear/cats/***** etc... over bait or with dogs, use this type of blind or that type of decoy learn to respect one anothers methods if legal and not try to undermine them because they don't hunt that way themselves, or we may all be endangered not only from the outside but from within as well. Start working with one another for a common goal the way a team dose to gain a victory. :thumbsup:

Just thought I would shoot off a bit of steam.

Keep the sport alive take a kid hunting/ fishing.
 

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Greg:
I agree with you about hunters needing to stop basing other hunters, and that is one of my favorite quotes united we stand, divided we fall. Only problem is that there are some things that people do that just aren't ethical or fair. Spotlighting/Roadhunting for deer to me is unethical and not at all fair chase. Just because the people that do this call themselves hunters doesn't mean I will throw support to them. Some things do need to be questioned even inside the hunting community.

I do completely understand where you are coming from though. You do hear alot of bashing going on between hunters. I especially hear this while hunting public land. The bird hunters bash the deer hunters because they think their dogs will be shot. The deer hunters bash the bird hunters because they are disturbing the deer. I do a little bit of everything so I hear it from both sides, but they both need to understand and respect the others sport.
 

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Just something for all to read and think about! You could put just about any type of hunting in this little Write and Get the Same End Results!

We need to Ban together! If it isn't your Style, YET You are a Hunter, You keep your Mouth shut and don't try and make it illegal or Bad Mouth it! Someday, your Style of Hunting maybe on the line!

Greg, I agree with your Vent! We all need to Stick Together!

Cannibals and useful idiots
Written by John Wasmuth
The following is real, and it's here.
Joe Hunter goes to a cocktail party, nothing fancy, just a holiday gathering in Anytown, USA. A conversation begins with Bob Peta, it goes something like this;
"Say Joe, didn't you go deer hunting this year."
"Sure did Bob."
"Man that's, uh, great, did you get one?"
"Yep, sure did, nice 6 point."
"Uh, wow, hey that's great. Say listen Joe, yer a true hunter, a "Real" hunter are you not?"
"Yes, I sure am."
"Say, I hear tell of a kinda huntin where people can go and kill animals in fenced in areas. You've never done that have you?"
"No, no I haven't."
"Well I wouldn't call that "real" hunting, would you Joe."
"Well, that's not the way I hunt."
"I know Joe, but there are people that hunt in fenced areas, I don't think that's "Really" hunting, do you Joe."
"Well, uh, I guess not."
"Great, say listen Joe, a bunch of us concerned "Real" hunters are trying to get that done away with, we feel that it is unethical. Will you help us Joe?"
"Well sure, because that's not the way I hunt, and I am a "Real" hunter."
"Say thanks Joe; here is what we need you to do. As a "real" hunter, the big boys in senate and congress will listen to you; they know that any "Real" hunter only hunts the way you do, and that's the only "Real" hunting there is. So what we need you to do is get out there and get petitions signed, people will sign them because you are a "Real" hunter and know that only your way of hunting is the "Real" way."
So Joe diligently goes after the goal, to ban and outlaw any kind of hunting that Bob suggests is not "Real" hunting. He gathers signatures, petitions courts, makes meetings, he is really cleaning up this "unethical" way of hunting. Hell, he's got a lot of support. He's gathering "Real" hunters from all over, and finally, after much hard work, they get a legal way of hunting banned.
"Joe, you did great and we sure appreciate your hard work, but hey, let me tell you what I heard about. There is another kind of hunting "We" think is not right. Do you think you can help us?"
"Well, I guess so Bob, I don't hunt like that, so it's not "Real" hunting. How can I help?"
"Well, here is what we need…….," and it's the same story. Odd how Bob seems to keep adding onto the list of what "Real" hunting is, but Joe goes at it hard and heavy, and in the end, he gets that type of legal hunting banned. Bob and his "Friends" are happy. Joe's a "Real" hunter after all, and these other guy's, well, they are not, because the way they hunt is different from Joe, and Joe does not like that type of hunting, so what's the harm in getting rid of it? Joe's a "Real" hunter you know. Not like those other guys. He even goes to Sportsman's organizations and recruits from within, it's easy because there are a lot of "Real" hunters there.
Time passes and more and more legal forms of hunting are banned. Bob and his "friends" are happy with Joe. He's been a big help. After it's all just about gone, Bob and his "friends" decide that it is time to get Joe's way of hunting banned, the final chapter.
"Bob, uh, hey buddy, this is Joe. I know I helped you get rid of all those other forms of legal hunting, but now there is a move to get rid of the way I hunt."
"Well Joe, I know. My "friends" and I are spearheading that."
"But Bob, I thought you liked the way I hunt, that it was ok for me to do the type of hunting I do."
"Well Joe, no, any and all types of hunting are bad, the poor defenseless animals never have a chance, and we dislike, actually hate hunters."
"But I thought the way I hunted was "Real" hunting to you."
"Hell Joe, it was all " Real" hunting, but we at PETA and HSUS Hate you, but thanks for all your help, we really appreciate it."
You see, what Joe became was a "Cannibal". A "Useful Idiot" to the anti's and PETA. They don't give a rat's backside how you hunt, what you hunt, or when you hunt. They just want all hunting done away with. They use hunters against hunters to gain support for their "Causes".
If you do not support any and all forms of legal hunting, and decide to pick and chose the ones you like and dislike, and voice any decent about the way someone else legally hunts, you are in fact, a "Cannibal" and a very very "Useful Idiot" for the enemy. There are plants even within the sacred walls of your favorite Sportsman's organizations. Route them out, expose them, and rid the board of them. Hunting's future depends upon it.
 

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gsphunter said:
Spotlighting/Roadhunting for deer to me is unethical and not at all fair chase. .
I'm Pretty Sure, in Every State, it is Illegal to Shoot ANY Type of Animal from a Vehicle (unless Handicapped with a Permit) or to Shoot Deer with a Spot light.

Things that Are Legal, should not be Degraded or tried to make Illegal!

Ethical is a Word I Hate! If it is Legal, Some place, A majority Felt it was Ethical to make it legal.
 

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I totally agree with you Woody. We are definitely on the same page. I'm also sure that spotlighting is illegal in every state. The problem is that people that are doing illegal stuff like this still parade around as "hunters". This is where I get mad at other so called hunters. I have no problems with people practicing there desired aspect of the outdoors. I don't trap, **** hunt, bear hunt, and I also don't bash any of these. I just don't like when people that call themselves hunters do illegal things and then still want your support.

I am in no way bashing legal outdoor loving people.
 

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good topic. here we have,

bowhunters vs rifle hunters
black powder vs rifle
bow hunters vs quail hunters
rifle hunters vs quail hunters
duck hunters vs quail hunters
duck hunters vs fishermen
out of state vs resident
and everyone vs the antihunters
the only people i have a problem with are the ones breaking the law. we do need to respect other peoples hunting methods. sorry to use this word but as long as it is ethical. but if it is legal we have to respect it also or try to get the rules changed. to me hunting is not fun or rewarding unless it is ethical. by that i mean shooting a duck tied to a rock. or like i had that guy on the lake here running his boat at like 15 miles an hour shooting all the ducks off the water 3 min after shooting time. i don't have a prob with spinning wing decoys or pass shooting even if i don't do it.

learn to respect one anothers methods if legal
i agree with that.
 

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had said:
to me hunting is not fun or rewarding unless it is ethical. by that i mean shooting a duck tied to a rock. or like i had that guy on the lake here running his boat at like 15 miles an hour shooting all the ducks off the water 3 min after shooting time. .
had,

First, Tieing a duck to a Rock and Shooting it :laughing: I don't get Were, (Even know, I hate the Word)you can use Ethical to Discribe that....That is just plain DUMB(not saying you are Dumb, just the thought of someone doing that) and Somewere, it has to Be illegal!

As for the guy running his Motor and shooting from a moving boat plus past shooting hours, Wouldn't that be Illegal Also, So you could not use Ethical for that aswell.

We had a Debate come up on another site about if things were Ethical.

Here goes (ALL LEGAL)

Deer Drives
Sneaking Geese in a Field
Pass Shooting
Jump Shooting
Bow Hunting
Cross Bow hunting
Use of Semi Autos
Shooting Birds off the Water
The List went on and on, I do not remember everything that was Covered, but Everything was Legal to do!

If it is Illegal, then how could it be Ethical? :help:

The word Ethical should not be brought up for any LEGAL means of hunting. 1 guy may do it another may not, who is to say it is Ethical or not if it is Legal and they choose not to hunt that way or do choose to hunt that way? :help:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ethical is a word which is very hard to discribe because everyone has their own perception of what it means. I don't think that spraying a field with contact cement where the ducks and geese are landing so they would be there when I got there would be very ethical nor would driving deer into an encloser so I could pick and shoot the best one. I have not seen writen laws to stop this but it is not ethical. What I was getting at was that if we don't stop the infighting we will all loose. So weather you hunt with dogs ,High powered rifles, bows, compound or other wise, jump shoot, what ever as long as it is legal in the area you hunt in then why have a cow over what some one else does as long as it it also legal and I might add safe, in that area.

Keep the sport alive take a kid hunting/fishing.
 

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woody wrote:
If it is Illegal, then how could it be Ethical?
woody , i agree with you.
i was joking with the rock thing.

i wrote:
the only people i have a problem with are the ones breaking the law. we do need to respect other peoples hunting methods.
i thought that covered it.

i wrote:
to me hunting is not fun or rewarding unless it is ethical.
here i was talking about people that break the law.

sorry for any confusion.
 

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Well, I got an idea on a few of these issues. What is cool to one might not be to another, even if it is illegal. It all comes down to opinion. I'm in the military and have lived all over the US and seen every method there can be on hunting (well not all I'm sure) example, in N.C., you can use dogs to run deer, a few guys wait on the other side of a fence and turn thier dogs loose up the road and shoot them as they run by.........and here in texas people hunt over feeders. Theres pros and cons to all of it, tit-for-tat-, I personally don't hunt over feeders or use dogs, kida like running em down or ringing the dinner bell. I prefer to put in some time and find crossing areas or a good clearing, instead of blasting bambi when she come to eat the food I set out, but hey....thats me. As for bird hunting, I don't take pot-shots on the water, but I will let my boys ages 5 and 7 do so. Why...so they can have success, build thier confidence and skill level to successfully pass-shoot or decoy. Not that all of thier birds come from pot-shots, they shoot decoying birds 90% of the time, but if one lands, I'll let them take it. I don't really bash anyones hunting methods as long as they are legal and the game goes to good use. If I don't agree with it, well thats me, I'm sure theres tons of guys out there that won't agree with allot of things I do, but to each his own. As far as the crowd goes......I prefer the folks who hunt birds. Seems like bird hunters are more down to earth and willing to take you along or help out than any other hunter. I'd say some of the biggest @ssholes I've ever encountered were deer hunters. I could go on and on. No offense to anyone, but to wrap it all up. It's all a matter of opinion, but as long as it's legal, good for the game and species management, and nothing is wasted, then go out, whack it and stack it.
 

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Woody, I see what your saying, but these laws were put into effect because "hunters" were shooting up everything in sight and still are. Some people think they are above the law. IMO the word "ETHICAL" does have its place.
 

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Yes, people every year are getting caught with too many ducks, fish, deer, everything. Why is this, why can't we all respect the limits put in place? Idk why, people like you said before think they are above the law, and think why not i am here might as well shoot this bird even though it is out of season, or dang i shot one bird that the limit... ohh well.

Where does Sportsmen, and the love of hunting and keeping these rules as leanient as possible come in hand. Sure fines are huge and people pay the price every year for their mistakes.

As for differences between hunters. Everyone sees things differently, but some see clearly on some issues than others and they form a group, and others that see differently then them form another. So even in real life issues we have different groups and issues. So i guess it will happen with hunting groups also, which sucks.

Well, keep the hunting sportsman ship real and keep it on the top of the list along with the love of hunting and taking the little ones out hunting.

Mnduckhunter
 

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tstrong said:
IMO the word "ETHICAL" does have its place.
You are Right! To you, it has a place! :thumbsup: I'm not arguing that...I Personally Hate the Word.

Reason, What is Legal and Right to me, could be Wrong to you and what is Legal and Right to you, could be Wrong to me! Then you throw the Word "Ethical" in there and "Feathers" Get ruffled the wrong direction.

There Are MANY Hunting Styles I do not Agree with.........BUT, I will not list them, NOR Voice out Against them. Reason, I might need help from those Guys some Day to Defend My Hunting ways, I'll Support them, even if I do not agree with it and it is Legal, for we are all bonded as Hunting Brothers and Sisters and should support each other even if we do not agree! Don't Feed the Antis the Fuel they need by Fighting among Our Ranks :salude: :thumbsup:
 

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had said:
woody wrote:
If it is Illegal, then how could it be Ethical?
woody , i agree with you.
i was joking with the rock thing.

i wrote:
the only people i have a problem with are the ones breaking the law. we do need to respect other peoples hunting methods.
i thought that covered it.

i wrote:
to me hunting is not fun or rewarding unless it is ethical.
here i was talking about people that break the law.

sorry for any confusion.
Sorry about Misunderstanding! :thumbsup:
 

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Illegal acts. Those seem to be that against which we are railling. No one can support any illegal act & still call himself an "hunter." Additionally, anyone who condemns a legal hunting practice should do some soul - searching. The common theme in all of the posts in this thread is the condemnation of illegal acts; as well it should be. :thumbsup:
On the money, Woody. Electronic decoys are legal in many states, but not in Pennsylvania (too many things are illegal in Pa, but that's another thread for another day). This does not give me, a Pennsylvanian, the right to judge an hunter in another state who uses them. Do they work? Let time tell whether or not they do. So long as the practice legally permits an hunter or fisherman to harvest game, then it must remain above our reproach. Just look @ what legislation against baiting has done to bear hunting. Look @ cougar (mountain lion) hunting. 1) No dogs to hunt cougars; 2) No cougar hunting. When we begin to split hairs over "fair chase", we've opened the doors for PETA. (Check the news regarding this group; they've been giving money to the domestic terrorist group ELF. They're starting to make our point for us. Time for us to turn the tables on PETA).
 

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Woodywoodduck said:
If it is Illegal, then how could it be Ethical? :help:
Quite easy is it not obvious it can be illegal and unethical? For example poaching a deer, or overlimit of ducks?

Lets explore the the differences between legal and unethical though as I think that is where the divisions are.

Def of ethical: 1. Having to do with being ethics; of or conforming to moral standards. 2, conforming to professional standards of conduct.

Def of ethics: the study of stanards of conduct and moral judgement. 2 The system of morals of a particular person, religion, group, etc

Def of Moral: 1. Being able to distinguish between right and wrong. 2. the teaching thereof. 3. Good in conduct or character

For me that is easy question. It is legal to shoot up to 2 hen Mallrds in the MS flyway the last few years. But I personally try not to shoot them as dead hens do not raise ducklings. The predators while they are nesting are the #1 problem with Mallard hen mortality, so why should I, being I have a choice to whether to shoot or not, knowingly pull the trigger? For every hen I let go, there is that good chance she will be nesting next spring. My personal ethics are that I try not to shoot a hen Mallards, it does happen on occassion, but I try not to. The law allows it, but I hold myself to a higher standard than the law being I know the reality of the hens plight. Often there are 2 to 4 times as many drakes in a flock (the drakes are not predated on the nest--and why they out number the hens so widely) so why not shot drakes instead is my goal.

Another is pass shooting-it is legal, but I preferr to have them over the decoys. Have I pass shot before-you bet, but I also have seen the limitations of it in that it is not personally nearly as rewarding to me as decoying the birds.
I have also seen pass shooting abused, guys setting up in a ditch down wind of me when I have a spread of decoys out, they are using my equipment and my time that I took to set them out to attract the geese, and yet they are the ones doing the shooting-often out of range. (I consider this highy unethical, they are lazy SOBs in my book, as they are not willing to put the time or $ for equipment in-I consider this stealing my oppurtunity of my enjoyment of a good hunt) I have had way too many hunts ruined because of this illgotten behavior. :pissed:
Or as serious: Guys shooting them out of range, way too high, one can hear the pellets hitting the birds-knowing they injured the birds only to fly off and many dieing later that day or week from infection, blood loss, etc.... Just like in battle 100+ years ago- 2/3 of the deaths occurred not instantaniously, but later that day or week as they died from the inflicted wounds. It is my opinion that the same happens to waterfowl. They figure 25% of the birds in range that are shot at and hit die later. Skybusting is a lot worse ratio. So ethically, I do not like to skybusting for sure, pass shooting only when in range, and then only on occassions far a few between-but at birds definately within range.

So yes there is a difference between what the law allows and ethics. Simply put-often unethical behavior is selfish, with only concern about yourself, and without regard how your actions are effecting others.
 

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i personally feel that the word ethical used in hunting conversations has to do with writen laws.....let me explain

there are laws.....you either abide by them or break them.....

then there are actions not governed by laws.....good example would be the robo-type-duck

way back in history the first guy to use one prob researched the laws and saw there weren't any laws prohibiting them....nor were there any allowing them..."grey area"

his buddies may have thought the use of one was unethical....even though he wasn't breaking any written laws...."you cant use that to fool those ducks"

now the state sees the wide spread use of them and gets involved and either outlaws or permits them....in indiana you can use them....other states might outlaw them....you are either legal or breaking the law...cut and dry

opinions on ethical or not are now only opinions

now some people might not like the fact you are using one...weather they are jealous or don't agree with the concept...thats their opinion...but if you are within the law....use away!!

i've seen products designed to keep a shotgun shell near your hand for a quick load of a fourth shot....this in my opinion seems legal since the laws say the gun itself can't hold more that 3 shells....you may think this is cutting edge and in a grey area...might even think use of this product is unethical...but until the laws say that the gun you use cant have more than 3 shells within say a 2 feet perimeter then its legal to strap an extra shell to your gun...whats the difference in extra shotshell holders in your jacket or on your waders....

just my 2 cents
 
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