Illegal or Legal? Scaring ducks to Layout hunter
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You can not do that in Caljackistan.
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It is called rallying, and yes it is illegal.
https://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-huntin ... iting.html
"Rallying. You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat."
https://www.fws.gov/le/waterfowl-huntin ... iting.html
"Rallying. You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat."
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Well.....you cannot hunt waterfowl driven or rallied by someone of your own party....but you are certainly allowed to shoot ducks that are driven to the air and then lite into your spread from an unknown boat...as a commercial fishing boat or a duck hunter you are not with who is going back to the ramp...
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A guy transitioning an area is not rallying. But if Clyde the duck hunter, who you have never met, decides it is a calm day and he just going to stir the divers up for all you good old boys to shoot by running around the lake about a dozen times, you and Clyde can be cited.toolmaker said:
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Someone in a kayak gently pushing the birds up is very effective. Done that a lot in the past. Kayaker usually gets to jump a few birds themselves. Only legal if no motor. Illegal to use motorized boat to rally ducks in Canada.
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the "you" IN THAT STATEMENT , cant be cited! but your friend Clyde could!!!!!!!Theduckguru said:
and I didn't mention anything about a guy running around a lake a dozen times....
if some joker is stirring the birds over and over...hes liable for a ticket and anyone the feds can associate with him as a party, but every duck hunter in town hunting the bay isn't liable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We don't know this for sure. If Clyde is doing this in plain view right in front of you, a case might be made that you were complicit. After all, it takes two for the rallying thing to stick: a driver and a shooter. Clyde's doing the driving and you're doing the shooting. Sorta like when Clyde dumps a couple hundred pounds of corn in your favorite spot and you're caught hunting over it. :sad:toolmaker said:
Anyway, how would you prove you don't know Clyde?
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It's called hearding and yes, it is illegal (here in NY) as you described it.
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To the OP;
While to some degree it is a matter of semantics, it's really a matter of what are the helmsman's intentions. I can only be anchored up waiting my turn for so long so I'd want to take a ride. If my wake happens to put birds up and they happen to fly into my guys or any other guys, that's neither here nor there. If I intentionally aim full out at a flock of 4000 birds that are a few hundred hards away from my rig, then it's pretty obvious what my intentions were and that is not ok.
While to some degree it is a matter of semantics, it's really a matter of what are the helmsman's intentions. I can only be anchored up waiting my turn for so long so I'd want to take a ride. If my wake happens to put birds up and they happen to fly into my guys or any other guys, that's neither here nor there. If I intentionally aim full out at a flock of 4000 birds that are a few hundred hards away from my rig, then it's pretty obvious what my intentions were and that is not ok.
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Wow, never thought of it that way. What does this mean for jump shooting? If guys are set up at the end of a pond, dith, slough, etc... and someone else jumps a group of birds amd the set party dumps a few, is that illegal? Or only if they are buddies and working together to kill ducks.
I think the argument of hearding ducks with a boat is soft at best. Once the bird is jumped by a passing boater, the bird can fly any direction it wants, very thin argument for the boater forcing the direction of flight for the bird to its terminal flight. It may be illegal but it seems the argument is very objective and open to a bunch of interpretation.
How is it any differnet than a deer drive, rabbit drive, or even pushing pheasant in a line of hunters through a field. These are all legal hunting tactics, probably not the most ethical, but legal none the less. Does it have to do with federal migatory bird issues?
Enlighten me, does anyone have the exact verbiage from their states laws?
In California, I know its illegal to shoot into a GRIND, but I've never heard of two guys bumping game to eachother as being illegal.
Does the same hold true if two hunting buddies work together to jump shoot. Hunter one kicks the bird up, but hunter two shoots the bird?
The concept is the same, or does it only apply when using a motorized boat?
Help me out?
I think the argument of hearding ducks with a boat is soft at best. Once the bird is jumped by a passing boater, the bird can fly any direction it wants, very thin argument for the boater forcing the direction of flight for the bird to its terminal flight. It may be illegal but it seems the argument is very objective and open to a bunch of interpretation.
How is it any differnet than a deer drive, rabbit drive, or even pushing pheasant in a line of hunters through a field. These are all legal hunting tactics, probably not the most ethical, but legal none the less. Does it have to do with federal migatory bird issues?
Enlighten me, does anyone have the exact verbiage from their states laws?
In California, I know its illegal to shoot into a GRIND, but I've never heard of two guys bumping game to eachother as being illegal.
Does the same hold true if two hunting buddies work together to jump shoot. Hunter one kicks the bird up, but hunter two shoots the bird?
The concept is the same, or does it only apply when using a motorized boat?
Help me out?
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Im not advocating this type of hunting behavior or tactics, but what I have experienced with most wardens, mainly Federal, they tend to make mountains out of molehills. And that being the case, I could easily see how they would try to make a case for "Rallying birds" for one guy bumping a couple birds to another hunter.
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I think it's a fine line but intent is what's the deal breaker. Interesting point of a few guys walking abreast with the intent of kicking up a bird and expanding their chances at a shot at a bird because their buddy may kick one up and fly your way......I have no problem with that. That's also pretty much what you do while pheasant/rabbit hunting anyway. I think that would be dismissed as a safe tactic to stay a safe distance from your buds.
You shooting birds that came to you because a boat happen to go by and kick up birds?, no problem. Your tender with your buddies in it doing laps setting out to kick up birds, no good.
You shooting birds that came to you because a boat happen to go by and kick up birds?, no problem. Your tender with your buddies in it doing laps setting out to kick up birds, no good.
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Actually if someone is rallying birds and YOU are shooting them, YOU can be cited. "You cannot hunt waterfowl that have been concentrated, driven, rallied, or stirred up with a motorized vehicle or sailboat".toolmaker said:
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Great points by all and an interesting read!
I think that as long as its not a habitual "scaring" or causing the birds to flight you are probably OK.
That would be tough to prove in court, short of having a video of the continued behavior because its so objective.
On slow days, I personally love the sound of the train and or boats ripping through the bay because it causes the birds to get up.
In my area the birds have such a vast area to refuge (40,000+ acres) that is not accessible to hunters, the birds often figure this out by the third shoot day of the season. This can present quite a challenge if you know what I mean.
I think that as long as its not a habitual "scaring" or causing the birds to flight you are probably OK.
That would be tough to prove in court, short of having a video of the continued behavior because its so objective.
On slow days, I personally love the sound of the train and or boats ripping through the bay because it causes the birds to get up.
In my area the birds have such a vast area to refuge (40,000+ acres) that is not accessible to hunters, the birds often figure this out by the third shoot day of the season. This can present quite a challenge if you know what I mean.
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