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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why doesn't shot shell boxes have ranges instead of velocities? If I was going to shoot waterfowl at 15 yards, pretty sure I wouldn't need a shell that traveled 1710 FPS. Just saying. If I wanted to set my decoy's at 40 yards, I should be able to buy the ones that advertised for a range to 40 yards on the box. Thoughts?

What if ducks shot back? Now that would change the game a bit don't you think? How about those drones? You know if department stores flew one over your blind you would be tempted to take a shot at it.............

Last one; I've been reloading steel with an MEC 3.5 Steel Master and have the adapters for 2.75 thru 3.5. I utilize the SAM1 wads for the most part and have discovered that in 12 gauge, 35 grains of Alliant Steel works fairly well throughout the range of shell lengths in 1 1/16 oz (2 3/4); 1.1/4 oz ( 3") and 1.5 oz in 3.5. Why so many recipes?

I just picked up a few old (1960's era) Auto 5's and loaded a few hundred rounds of bismuth for this past season. Realized fairly quick that bismuth needs buffer and reduced speeds unlike steel.

I have a Lyman 5th, but the reloading components that the bismuth loads call for are all but extinct.
I used the ballistic products reloading data for some 12 gauge bismuth but the charge seems a bit heavy at 1.5 oz.

I have more questions, but will save for later.
Does anyone still manufacture shot shells in the US from raw materials? Should we? I found reloading machines in Italy, but they are quite pricey.
Just for fun gentlemen.
Last message board I posted on was, well years ago, but I do like the reloading discussions you guys use to have here. Lots of great information.
Have a great evening.
 

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Why doesn't shot shell boxes have ranges instead of velocities? If I was going to shoot waterfowl at 15 yards, pretty sure I wouldn't need a shell that traveled 1710 FPS. Just saying. If I wanted to set my decoy's at 40 yards, I should be able to buy the ones that advertised for a range to 40 yards on the box. Thoughts?

What if ducks shot back? Now that would change the game a bit don't you think? How about those drones? You know if department stores flew one over your blind you would be tempted to take a shot at it.............

Last one; I've been reloading steel with an MEC 3.5 Steel Master and have the adapters for 2.75 thru 3.5. I utilize the SAM1 wads for the most part and have discovered that in 12 gauge, 35 grains of Alliant Steel works fairly well throughout the range of shell lengths in 1 1/16 oz (2 3/4); 1.1/4 oz ( 3") and 1.5 oz in 3.5. Why so many recipes?

I just picked up a few old (1960's era) Auto 5's and loaded a few hundred rounds of bismuth for this past season. Realized fairly quick that bismuth needs buffer and reduced speeds unlike steel.

I have a Lyman 5th, but the reloading components that the bismuth loads call for are all but extinct.
I used the ballistic products reloading data for some 12 gauge bismuth but the charge seems a bit heavy at 1.5 oz.

I have more questions, but will save for later.
Does anyone still manufacture shot shells in the US from raw materials? Should we? I found reloading machines in Italy, but they are quite pricey.
Just for fun gentlemen.
Last message board I posted on was, well years ago, but I do like the reloading discussions you guys use to have here. Lots of great information.
Have a great evening.
Welcome ! Glad to have ya
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you sir. it's kind of quiet.
Cant stay long, have to be back to work in a few hours. Public service is quiet demanding at times.

20 Gauge bismuth reloading components:
I picked up a few hundred primed hulls 3"( cant seem to find primers anywhere), a few pounds of lil' gun and long shot powder,20 pounds of bismuth US #5 shot, threw in some 20 gauge wads (steel 1 oz.), a few filler wads and picked the recipe from the "load of the week" archive and went to loading shells.
If Dave from AZ is listening, please don't read anymore my friend. I brewed this recipe up and it was a catastrophe. I had a mallard at 25 yards hovering in place and I sent one right to him like it was coming first class mail and he looked right at me cocked his head and flew off without a scratch. Didn't even flare, just left.
I went home, walked out in the pasture and put a round in a barrel lid and the pellet marks on the lid were small and hardly left any indention's in the soft metal. I went back to some of the old post on this site and discovered that some were making slight modifications to the recipes for improved results. I just happened to have a jar of mix 47 buffer so I removed the 1/8 oz bismuth from the 1 1/8 oz shot charge and added 10 grains of the mix 47. Next morning, wigeon in the bag. Life is good again.
Have a great night gentlemen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That does sound good 3200 man.
So I picked up a few boxes of Rio Bismuth 12 gauge #6 in a 2 3/4" ; 1 1/4 oz. 1350 fps load and some have a fiber wad. I plan on using these rounds for September teal season. Should I be concerned about the fiber wads?
I was planning on picking up a MEC 20 gauge size master, but I realized they are currently out of stock at most places. I have a lesser value 20 gauge re-loader, but i can't seem to get the crimps to my liking compared to the MEC.
 

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That does sound good 3200 man.
So I picked up a few boxes of Rio Bismuth 12 gauge #6 in a 2 3/4" ; 1 1/4 oz. 1350 fps load and some have a fiber wad. I plan on using these rounds for September teal season. Should I be concerned about the fiber wads?
I was planning on picking up a MEC 20 gauge size master, but I realized they are currently out of stock at most places. I have a lesser value 20 gauge re-loader, but i can't seem to get the crimps to my liking compared to the MEC.
Well , with the means of de-priming / priming and sizing some hulls , don't let the crimping station hold
you back loading 20 ga ammo ! Just roll crimp them , with a $30. roll crimp die from BPI all you'll need
is a electric drill of some sort . It'll take a little research , maybe on this forum or The Duck hunters Refuge
but it will be worth the effort .
Those Rio's will work but you won't be giving up much with the 20 ga ammo either !
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you sir. There seems to be a 4 pin roll crimp tool out there for sale and I have a drill. I've never tried roll crimping, but I do have some old paper hull lead ammo with the stamped overshot card in the safe. I'll order one and let you guy's know how it turns out.
One more, I would assume that if I roll crimped a once fired hull, it will need to be trimmed a bit.
I have some new 20 ga. primed 3" cheddite hulls. should I trim those also? I ask this as I will be using an old auto 5 with a 3" chamber.
If this works for me, I may roll crimp most all of my 20 gauge reloads; and 3200 man you may have just saved me $400.00. (Thanks)
Dave, if I roll crimp instead of fold, will I need to adjust the recipe any to account for the roll vs. the fold. I see where the fold crimp is identified in the 5th edition of Lyman, but there is nothing relating to a rolled.
 

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Rolled loads might end up longer when rolled, which may cause cycling issues.
Unrolled, they're the same length.
You may need to add some filler so you don't end up with too much plastic in the roll.
If you trim the hull, you'll likely increase the psi of the load.
 

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Dunbar, don't trim hulls to roll crimp. What Jim said. This is the #1 error roll crimpers do, assuming they can trim hull, which invalidates the data, increases pressure, and makes your load a complete unknown wildcat.
Yes, roll crimp leaves more volume in the hull... THAT'S WHY IT IS GENERALLY SAFE TO DO!! It doesn't mean a fold crimp koad will fit nice, it wont-- but that doesnt mean you can randomly trim off pressure-reducing hull length.
Here's how you do it:
1. Use a recipe intended for roll crimp and tested at it. Only BPI has this in Advantages, and some Lyman.
2. Use a tested fold crimp recipe that is already pretty tight, roll crimp it instead. Add a felt or meat tray styrofoam or some flax seed if needed.
3. In 20ga, the 2 best steel loads I know are 1oz roll in a 3in hull, and 7/8oz roll in a 2.75in hull. Great fit, fast, best known loads. Yeah I have a fold crimp version of each, but its 50-90 fps slower to stay under MAP.
4. In 12ga, the HG load crimps nice, but it is tiiight... so it also makes an outstanding roll crimp with 2 shot, and the roll is required for 1 or B shot.

If you do a search here for me as author and RTO or roll, you can read some targeted good info, and probably see every RTO load you'd need, since we discuss it a lot here.

Oh, and Franchi 20ga don't cycle 3in rto hulls well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good morning all,
Still reading the older post on various topics related to shot sizes/loads and penetration. I will say that you guy's have a good time debating some of these topics. Good stuff and I hope to read more current data debates. So is it safe to say that the sp20 and the 20s1 are not available retail. what are my options? Steel wads? Currently using csd's for my bismuth. Thanks for the post guys.
Just so you know, the Turkey-Goose comparison topic was a bit funny when i read it.
 

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With most Small Gauge reloading , it's hard to beat TPS wads and straight-walled hulls for Steel Shot and
Bismuth , even those heavy lead loads some like ! Loads for clay targets and Hunting , well there's plenty of
recipes for those too , using wads that are readily available . It's whatever your needs are , but , no doubt it's
fun to work up a load to suit your needs .
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Morning all,
Roll crimp tool from BPI is on the way.
While I was there, I added to cart 2-20 lb bags of the reclaimed (Value) steel shot in 3 and 6. Any of you tried this stuff yet. It's $38.99 per 20 lbs. I have time to sort the (saturns) on weekends. Have a great day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks guy's,
I'm looking at a vintage auto 5 (1928), but it comes with a poly choke.
It needs a bit ( ALOT) of work so it's in my price range.
Oh and I'm still reading Dave's post from like 10 years ago. very interesting stuff from some of you guy's and just to let you know it is all very valuable information for folks like me who know just enough to be dangerous.
I have to go pick up a new drill press for the roll crimp tool.
Told the wife I saved over $300.00 for not buying an additional re-loader so the press was a bargain.
Have a great day gentlemen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Okay I ran into a minor issue today. I had saved some red 12 gauge target load hulls ( Winchester) to reload with bismuth #5 shot later on. I used the drill press i picked up to chuck up an old piece of cleaning rod so I could use the round wire brush attachment to hold the hull while I took a piece of scotch bright to the exterior of the hull. I set the press speed to 750 rpm. Cleaned up real nice. Then i pulled out the Winchester W 209 primers and I was able to push them in with my finger. Did I miss something? The box label read made in Italy. Are these cheddites? Same thing with my spent bismuth hulls from Kent. I did try one in the Winchester AA HS hull and it was fine, so I tried the steel hulls in both federal and Winchester and they too were OK. I was hoping to use the light target hulls (2 3/4") for teal season, but guess that is a no go for now.
 
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