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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
Hmmmm. maybe I explained that wrong. I'll take a photo of the steps I took later in the week to give you a better ideal of what I'm doing wrong. I actually take my reloading equipment down at the end of the weekend and store it, so I'll have to get it set back up, but thank you for replying.
Don't tell Dave, but I used some of his non-alliant steel load data this past weekend and it loaded up great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #82 ·
Hmmmm. maybe I explained that wrong. I'll take a photo of the steps I took later in the week to give you a better ideal of what I'm doing wrong. I actually take my reloading equipment down at the end of the weekend and store it, so I'll have to get it set back up, but thank you for replying.
Don't tell Dave, but I used some of his non-alliant steel load data this past weekend and it loaded up great.
 

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If the crimp is dished in too far, dont add a gas seal. Use felt or some such squishy filler under the shot but inside the shotcup. The shotcup shouldn't be supporting the crimp, that's the job for the shot itself. Dont worry if some of the shot sits up above the shotcup--it will smash down in upon firing (we call it setback).
 

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Good morning,
Rio bismuth? AIM surplus has it starting at 9.99 for 10 rds. in 12 ga. #6. Should be a good teal round. Less freight/tax, that's $1.00 per round.
Have a great day all.
Picked up a nice 60's era sweet 16 this week. Been researching the 16 gauge loads in bismuth on the site. I'm going to need another roll crimp tool for this one.
That would be very much overkill for teal. Would be a good <40yd mallard load though. And a hell of a woodduck load. Id buy all they have if I could.
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
That would be very much overkill for teal. Would be a good <40yd mallard load though. And a hell of a woodduck load. Id buy all they have if I could.
BBK, I picked up 100 rounds and it arrived right before i got home from work..
Because I don't have any equipment or supplies for the 16 gauge, I just bought the BOSS shells for now.
I hope it's ok to divulge the information about the supplies that are on sale at times; as it can be quite expensive sourcing components, especially if your purchasing it at retail currently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #86 ·
If the crimp is dished in too far, dont add a gas seal. Use felt or some such squishy filler under the shot but inside the shotcup. The shotcup shouldn't be supporting the crimp, that's the job for the shot itself. Dont worry if some of the shot sits up above the shotcup--it will smash down in upon firing (we call it setback).
Yes sir, thanks Jim.
You mentioned set back and it reminded me of the time my childhood friend dared me to squeeze both triggers on his dad's DB 12 gauge in the field behind our house. I was introduced to "set back" at the age of 12. Won't ever forget it either.
Have a great evening sir.
 

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Discussion Starter · #87 ·
afternoon all,
Took a 2 3/4 " Winchester hull, spilled 33 grains of LS in it, covered it up with a CSD-078 and topped it off with 382 grains of #6 steel. Killed clay's, but the wad I slit (poorly) looked a bit rough.
I also took another Winchester hull, spilled some WSF in it, covered that with a BPGS and a BP 12 filled with 382 grains of #6 steel , sprinkled 13 grains of mix 47 on the shot and closed it with a OS card and an 8 fold crimp.(Killed clay's)
Wad was what I expected from what i had researched on this site;yep, had tiny pin holes in it on the sides of the wad.
I took pictures of the wads, but I'm a poor photographer and the photos were about the same caliber as the wads.
Question is, would you use this load for early teal? yes/no maybe....
The WSF load is from Lyman 5th. with a listed velocity of 1467.
Ran this thru a 3.5 gun and it had good recoil, however 382 grains of # 6 is quite a bit of shot.
I haven't patterned this yet, but plan on it once it cools down a bit.
Have a great evening and have a safe 4th.
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
ok guy's, i have to ask. Is the 40 grain Alliant steel load in a 3" hull using a lcb43 wad with 1 1/8 oz steel a go or no go for loading? It seemed to be an unanswered debate as for as a go or not on this recipe. I get the 2 3/4 for the no, but can't seem to find anything on the 3" hull where this was verified. Some of the load data in the ballistic book calls for even more grains of powder. Just checking in.
 

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ok guy's, i have to ask. Is the 40 grain Alliant steel load in a 3" hull using a lcb43 wad with 1 1/8 oz steel a go or no go for loading? It seemed to be an unanswered debate as for as a go or not on this recipe. I get the 2 3/4 for the no, but can't seem to find anything on the 3" hull where this was verified. Some of the load data in the ballistic book calls for even more grains of powder. Just checking in.
Don't just take BPI's word for it. Their numbers aren't real accurate, that sounds like plenty (perhaps too much) of powder.
I'm sure others will chime in, hopefully you'll get some good answers. For me that sounds like a couple of grains too much.
 

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ok guy's, i have to ask. Is the 40 grain Alliant steel load in a 3" hull using a lcb43 wad with 1 1/8 oz steel a go or no go for loading? It seemed to be an unanswered debate as for as a go or not on this recipe. I get the 2 3/4 for the no, but can't seem to find anything on the 3" hull where this was verified. Some of the load data in the ballistic book calls for even more grains of powder. Just checking in.
Are you looking for a specific speed or payload?
1.125oz and 32-34grain of steel works in 2.75” hulls, rolled or fold crimp.
 

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I wouldn't even consider trying that in 2.75" but it could do real nice in a 3" cheddite/fio/rio.

Youll need a filler to make it fit 3". I would suggest bird seed or rice above the shot. You don't want the steel to rise up over the shot pedals, so no felt/card wads under the shot. Normally bird seed is better than rice for this, less swelling.
 

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I'd look at RSI's data first. 40 grains seems a bit much to me--I don't KNOW that it's too much. If I recall correctly, RSI calls for 38 grains for a 492 grains of shot in a 3" hull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
Are you looking for a specific speed or payload?
1.125oz and 32-34grain of steel works in 2.75” hulls, rolled or fold crimp.
Hey Doc,
I actually just have a boat load of 3" Rio hulls and 2 full bags of the LBC43 wads that are getting old.
I have a bit of steel powder left so I had read where the 2 3/4 load mentioned earlier could quiet possibly be a misprint, but I couldn't find where this was confirmed in all the threads from the past.
So no sir, i don't have any 2 3/4 hulls left as I loaded those all with long shot or blue dot for September teal and quite a bit for bismuth loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #95 ·
Don't just take BPI's word for it. Their numbers aren't real accurate, that sounds like plenty (perhaps too much) of powder.
I'm sure others will chime in, hopefully you'll get some good answers. For me that sounds like a couple of grains too much.
KJB,
40 grains of steel seemed like a lot to me as well. I loaded up some 3" Remington hulls once with 42 grains of steel and a 2 3/4" Sam 1 wad and i 'll tell ya' it will set you back a bit.I also found the pattern wasn't all that either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 ·
View attachment 477430

I wouldn't even consider trying that in 2.75" but it could do real nice in a 3" cheddite/fio/rio.

Youll need a filler to make it fit 3". I would suggest bird seed or rice above the shot. You don't want the steel to rise up over the shot pedals, so no felt/card wads under the shot. Normally bird seed is better than rice for this, less swelling.
BBK,
I read somewhere on here that you can use corn meal. You ever try that? Maybe it was for buffer that corn meal was mentioned.
I actually fitted the LBC with an overshot card prior to crimp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
I'd look at RSI's data first. 40 grains seems a bit much to me--I don't KNOW that it's too much. If I recall correctly, RSI calls for 38 grains for a 492 grains of shot in a 3" hull.
Thanks Jim,
I do have a question for you though?
When I first started loading steel, I used an RSI pamphlet (Yellow) and most all the load data called for a w209 primer and then the recipes followed. Some of those recipes called for all sorts of components to make up a completed shell.
Is there just one load ( Waterfowl specifically) that on any given day you would take to the field and be content with using that load day in and day out and let's just assume that the range of all of your shots would be 25 to 30 yards primarily straight up. Not asking for any data, just yes or no.
And lastly, if one were to find the true holy grail load for those conditions, would it be safe to use a trimming tool to cut a spent hull down to a specific length to accommodate the load no matter what hull was used as long as it was the correct design internally? just a thought as this could possibly reduce the amount of added components needed to create the same results from the various shell manufacturers.
Or would it be better to just keep on keeping on?
Thank you sir in advance for listening to my questions.
 

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12ga. Cheddite 3"
Win 209
Alliant "STEEL" 38gr.
"SAM I' 12ga. 3" + 1-(1/8) Felt Spacer unc
shot, #3 and smaller steel
(520gr.) #7-#T
1550 F.PS.
10,200 P.S.I

Room to work pressures with a different wad
 

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Thanks Jim,
I do have a question for you though?
When I first started loading steel, I used an RSI pamphlet (Yellow) and most all the load data called for a w209 primer and then the recipes followed. Some of those recipes called for all sorts of components to make up a completed shell.
Is there just one load ( Waterfowl specifically) that on any given day you would take to the field and be content with using that load day in and day out and let's just assume that the range of all of your shots would be 25 to 30 yards primarily straight up. Not asking for any data, just yes or no.
And lastly, if one were to find the true holy grail load for those conditions, would it be safe to use a trimming tool to cut a spent hull down to a specific length to accommodate the load no matter what hull was used as long as it was the correct design internally? just a thought as this could possibly reduce the amount of added components needed to create the same results from the various shell manufacturers.
Or would it be better to just keep on keeping on?
Thank you sir in advance for listening to my questions.
Yes.

I've tried a bunch of loads, and will continue to do so. But there are two loads I keep coming back to in 12 ga.

3" hull
Win 209 / ched cx2000
35 g Steel
Csd118
1.25 oz steel #1's.

And for the short chambered gun:

2.75" fed .090 type hull
Win209
34 g Steel
Csd118
1.125 oz Steel #2's.

I have used the lbc wad in both these loads with success. In fact, it makes for a better fit with lettered shot.

Depending on how much I had to trim, I wouldn't have a problem cutting down hulls to make a better fit. But that seems like more work than adding a bit of felt.
 
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