Alliant did not test them with STEEL. Now, I use Rio's in the Rio hull only and shoot them only in my 935 finding them very consistant after Ohsays warning. SAAMII says the 935 is good to 14,000 psi and the Brtits 15,000+. The Rio primers are .004" larger than the American primers illiminating resizing the primer hole in the Rio hulls. I would not use them with any other propellant or hull. Ohsay, was your post directed at me???? Probably. Ned S
Rio Primers
Primers?
From: Carol Lister
Email:
Date: Mon, May 04, 2009 - 01:28 PM ET
Website Address:
Congratulations on not having split your chamber yet, Longshot. Obviously you haven't read everything that matters on the subject. Quote of a letter on the subject from Alliant:
"I am Dick Quesenberry, Product Manager for Alliant Canister Powder. Ben and I have discussed your e-mails and problems with Rio primers and our product. I apologize for the difficulty that you have encountered and appreciate you using our product.
We just completed work for the new revision of our Reloaders Guide, which was very badly needed. During this effort we tested all primers in a standard controlled load for both straight wall and tapered shells to correlate their brisance. The following conclusions were drawn from that effort:
· Primer brisance will vary from Lot to Lot within the same brand. Most vary within SAAMI safety limits but Rio was found to be extremely variable.
· We do not publish reloading recipes using Rio primers for the above reason
I have also talked to Kevin at Down Range (who happens to be a great guy) and he agrees with our findings.
If I was forced into recommending load data using the Rio 209, I would have to recommend loading like the Federal 209A and that may still give slightly higher velocities and pressures. ...
Call them an verify if you care to; I don't make this kind of stuff up just to annoy people like you. BTW, the original inquiries involved Promo, Red Dot and Clay Dot.
Lister
From: Carol Lister
Email:
Date: Mon, May 04, 2009 - 01:28 PM ET
Website Address:
Congratulations on not having split your chamber yet, Longshot. Obviously you haven't read everything that matters on the subject. Quote of a letter on the subject from Alliant:
"I am Dick Quesenberry, Product Manager for Alliant Canister Powder. Ben and I have discussed your e-mails and problems with Rio primers and our product. I apologize for the difficulty that you have encountered and appreciate you using our product.
We just completed work for the new revision of our Reloaders Guide, which was very badly needed. During this effort we tested all primers in a standard controlled load for both straight wall and tapered shells to correlate their brisance. The following conclusions were drawn from that effort:
· Primer brisance will vary from Lot to Lot within the same brand. Most vary within SAAMI safety limits but Rio was found to be extremely variable.
· We do not publish reloading recipes using Rio primers for the above reason
I have also talked to Kevin at Down Range (who happens to be a great guy) and he agrees with our findings.
If I was forced into recommending load data using the Rio 209, I would have to recommend loading like the Federal 209A and that may still give slightly higher velocities and pressures. ...
Call them an verify if you care to; I don't make this kind of stuff up just to annoy people like you. BTW, the original inquiries involved Promo, Red Dot and Clay Dot.
Lister
1 - 8 of 29 Posts
I'm shooting a 1 oz load in the Rio hull with the Rio primer. I shot 5 primers in a Gold Medal hull with the 7/8CSD shotcup only in my 935. The Rio velocities were vary consistant and almost Identical to the Feds. I shot Fioochi, White and Blue Box W209, Rems, CCI, Feds, Rios, and Cheddites. Fed209A and Rios were the most consistant, Cheddites were second best. The Blue Box Win 209 were terrible. Ned S
Come on Ohsay, you know Dang well that testing primers the way I did has no bearing how they perform with powder. I was only testing primer consistancy. I left out two variables powder and shot. I have only published my experience with Blue Box W209's, nothing more, However Jonmac had the same experience as I and he also stated the latest Blue Box W209 primers (he published the lot number) were giving him the same results as the old White Box ones. Dang you are getting as critical of my posts as another poster. Ned S the young 81 yr old who just found out that Mayo's in Scottsdale is no longer taking Medicare and Mayo in Rochester will stop in 2012.ohsay said:Did we lose some posts again? 43x had another one that I hadn't yet responded to and now it seems to be gone.
To answer it, no. I didn't really find a good load with longshot using a rio primer. I only tried with steel shot though, and didn't try many. Sound(ed) like you might have been wondering about it with heavy lead loads?
Ned, since there are people who do take what you say as gospel you might want to at least date the experiences you keep repeating. People have found the blue box win209s to be very consistent for years now, no longer suffering the problems they did after the change. And shooting five shells with only a primer and wad is a very poor test to compare one primer to another. The fact that you recommended them as a substitution based on that is frankly, a little frightening.
Now you imply I am foolish. Ned Sohsay said:So why do you say it, Ned? That's what's frustrating. You KNOW that test tells you almost nothing about how rios will compare to 209as in actual loads, but you say they're consistent and equal to a 209a anyway. You KNOW the blue box win209s perform perfectly well now, but you say you found them to be inconsistent anyway. There's no room for misinterpretation in those statements, and if you're not saying them to imply what they do, then why are you saying them at all? You don't say that test has no relevance to how they'll perform with powder. You don't say that win209s perform fine now. You leave them incomplete and they can only lead people to false conclusions. I only ask, and am frustrated by it because people read things like that and take them as they're stated. You're far too smart a guy not to realize that, so I just never understand why you say them at all. It's just... foolish.
You know I don't follow you around the forums to attack you like some others do. I just dispute some of your statements and 'facts' if I disagree with them or find them misleading. Sorry to hear about the Medicare thing. Unfortunately it's happening a lot of places.
I only use the Rio Primer in Rio Hulls using Lightning Steel recipe 35 and 36 and they were very consistant in the Stoeger Condor and 935 only running 100 fps faster in the 935. I use the Rio Primer because of the oversized primer hole in these hulls. Ned S
Really , I thought all powders burn going down the barrel. Also I have access to a pressure gun for testing my substitutes. All American Guns are pressure checked by the Gov't for an operationg pressure of around 14,300 psi in the UK before being sold. Ned S
The Helarco VP60 and VP53 does not work with STEEL recipes as they are 1/8" too long and were made for the other slow burning powders. You just do not have room enough with the STEEL recipes. Also VP60 has been recalled because of the petals shearing off. VP65 works fine with STEEL. The Danes are using VP65 in their fast, fast loads. Ned S
mokeman, thanks for the Rio primer info. Ned S
1 - 8 of 29 Posts
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