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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m trying to understand why conservatives are against Ukraine in this conflict. I keep hearing Zelensky supports nazis.
I’m lost on this because early on it was reported that Russia was pushing that narrative for the invasion.
 

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I am against the level of funding we are providing as it is exponentially higher than any of the eurotrash neighbors and without question, much is being siphoned off. Ukraine was a corrupt country before the war, and now is awash in money and arms.

While I'd like to see Ukraine rebuff Putin, it looks like Russia is slowly winning as Putin is not concerned about body counts, and America getting out of the energy business has given Putin all the money he needs for a long protracted war.

Just as Hussein predicted, Creepy Joe fudged this up as well with his weak rhetoric, dementia state and then limiting what weapons Ukraine could buy with the cash we gave them.

Next up..... Taiwan. But at least there are no mean tweets, so there is that.
 

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Zelensky is a puppet. His government is friendly to the Nazi movement in the Ukraine. This war is about gas pipelines and monetary dominance. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. Russia and China are working out trade deals to side step dollar transactions. The BRICS block is strengthening.
 

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The battle for freedom and liberty is not in ukraine. It's another neocon establishment / elitist bankster proxy war designed to defraud the American people. It's actually in reality an attack on the USA and the American way of life.

A war started by people who are using the national security apparatus to target American patriots as well as hold American patriots as political prisoners.
 

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Not to mention the massive psychological war they are using on the Amerian people to manipulate the simple and feeble minded. You still see people wearing facemasks and flying ukraine flags livng in fear looking to get in line and follow the next set of directives uncle scam sends their way...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This is the response I got from a guy I know that lived in Ukraine a few years and is serious with a Ukrainian gal.


Yeah, those accusation always seem absurd to me...accusing a Jewish comedian who lost family in the holocaust of being a Nazi sympathizer is a bit bizarre. Kyiv, Ukraine was the site of numerous Nazi atrocities such as the “Baba Yar” massacre of its Jewish population. The valley in central Kyiv where this happened is still held as a memorial site, and Ukrainians have a very strong, traditional hatred of Nazi Germany.

However, Ukraine has a complicated relationship with WWII. The end of WWII was both a victory and a defeat for Ukraine. Prior to the war Ukraine was fighting towards its independence, first from the Russian Empire, and then from the Soviet Union. But after WWII and the victory of Soviet forces over Nazi Germany, Ukraine was free of Nazi occupation, but also fell firmly under the rule of the USSR. The Soviet Union regarded victory in WWII as a grand symbol of the strength and righteousness of Soviet Communist ideology, and at that point if you weren’t a Communist you were considered a Nazi. There was no middle ground. Thus, anyone who was independent, and campaigned for independence from the USSR was labeled a Nazi sympathizer and quickly discredited.

Like many other European countries today, or even the USA for that matter, Ukraine does have a small extreme far-Right political movement who are essentially Neo-Nazis, but it doesn't hold any real political weight and is mainly a fringe group. You'll see them passing out fliers once in a while, or protesting something near the government offices in Kyiv, but they've never gained any momentum.

However, there is the very problematic Azov Regiment, which is a volunteer group formed in 2014 in response to the invasion of Eastern Ukraine. They are a privately-owned militia, they are vicious fighters, fiercely loyal to Ukraine, and also insanely far-far-Right-Wing. They're super unhinged and very dangerous politically, but are also very useful in the fight against Russia so Ukrainian politicians are always afraid to publicly criticize them. Most Ukrainians I know regard them as Neo-Nazi nut-jobs and want the government to distance itself from them, but because of their performance in various battles against Russia (they were the ones in that steel plant that was under siege for months), they have earned a following that sees them as heroes—which they are in a sense...they're just politically, ummm...unsophisticated.

One other episode from history that always comes back to haunt modern Ukraine is the case of Stepan Bandera. Prior to WWII Bandera was a resistance leader fighting for Ukrainian independence from the USSR. When WWII broke out, Ukraine was between a rock and a hard place, with the USSR coming from one direction and Germany from the other. They could either fight the Germans alongside the Soviets, or fight the Soviets alongside the Germans—or stay in the middle and just get crushed. In hindsight, Bandera and his fighters made the wrong call and accepted help from the Germans to fight against the Russians and ended up loosing their bid for independence anyway. Following WWII Bandera and his followers were demonized by the USSR as full-on Nazis. Accusing anyone who opposes them of being Nazis is an old strategy that the Soviets have used time and again.

In all my years living in Ukraine, I never witnessed any mainstream public sentiment that was even remotely “Nazi.” Walking down the street wearing a swastika would meet the same reaction as displaying a hammer and sickle—you'd probably get beat up... Nazi Germany is generally seen in the same light as the USSR, as an old enemy and oppressor, and mainstream Ukrainian politics are focused on aligning themselves with the EU and the West.
 
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One thing people get confused about is that "far right" in europe and "far right" in America are two completely different ideologies. Those "far right" in ukranie are hard leftists. National socialists and fascists who are all about total government. In America the left tries to paint constituional conservatives, moderate conservatives, or people who support a constitutional republic and limited government as neo nazi fascists and klu klux klan members. The left will tell you George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, or even Abe Lincoln were all neo nazis or klan members which is total horse s---.

The truth is that the klan was mostly made up of democrats.
 
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