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The Typist
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Read where China is selling Russian oil, so Russia should be flush with cash.
This is often a big misconception in these resource driven countries. It's why they are typically bankrupt.

Russia produces about 10 million barrels per day 馃槻 Sounds massive. Crude oil is about $90 per barrel.

So that's a revenue of about $330 billion per year.

But that's just revenue. It costs them over $40 per barrel to produce.

So they net $180 billion per year. That's enough to make Putin's cronies flush with cash. However, for a country funding a war. There are about 145 million people in Russia. That $180B is an average of less than $1,300 per person. That does not go very far. The country is broke. Granted, less broke and that's bad. But I think it is a far cry from calling this piss poor country flush with cash. The corrupt cronies, certainly are skimming off like never before. However, as far as a country engaged in a major war.

"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time" Donald Rumsfeld.

This piss poor broke country has a dilapidated and demoralized military. That's what they have. Money can only change that slowly over time.

The problem is that while in the grand scheme of things. This is very little money. Our politicians piss away far more than that without a thought. It wouldn't even come close to covering Crazy Joe's student loan debt transfer scheme. The problem is that Europe needs it far more than it's actual value. It gives power or at least the sense of power to Russia because they depend upon it as they chase their fantasy of not needing it from somewhere for the foreseeable future.

We can if we want, and we should want, to bankrupt and humiliate Russia just as we did when they went into Afghanistan. It would help undo some of the damage we did in turning Afghanistan into Vietnam. It's more about the Chinese and their goal of world domination. What we need to fear most if China miscalculating the U.S. and starting a war that we can't just surrender and run from.
 

The Typist
Joined
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Russia would not need to do it unless it is a alse flag. Putin can simply shut off the pipeline on their end which they may likely do anyway.
As we learned from the Mueller investigation. The part that was important and therefore completely ignored by those who claim to wish for an informed populace as they push for an ignorant lot of followers. Russia likes to sow discord. If they simply closed it off, they would unite those upset with them. However, if they can even plant a seed of doubt that the U.S. is ****ing with Europe. The coalition against this evil man may fall apart.

Watch the Tucker Carlson clip....no doubt this was sabatoge and it was not Russia that did it.
Exactly what Russia wants people to believe, is it not?

The Biden administration wants to end all natural gas production in the U.S. They don't want to expand exports. They want to bankrupt the coal, oil, and natural gas industries not enrich them. The doomsday global climate change cult would not seek to help the U.S. natural gas industry.

The only logical beneficiary is Russia. Does not mean it was stupidity writ large, but the idea that the cult we have in DC would allow anything that would help the U.S. sell gas or Ukraine was trying to screw over their sugar daddies is illogical.

Those opposed to the U.S. and European support from the beginning are trying to prove themselves right so they are looking for the proof anywhere they can make it up. Some people once they stake a position are inflexible and determined to prove themselves right no matter how far they have to stretch things.

Who knows? It really just could have been a rupture. Pressurized pipes can fail with a pretty big bang. So it just could be a coincidence. They happen too.
 

The Typist
Joined
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The China graph. I think the only way that happens is if they throw off communism. All they are doing is extrapolating growth, but to get to 50% of the per capita GDP of the U.S., they need a more efficient economy. Authoritarian governments are not conducive to efficient economies. I still stick with my prediction of years ago. One of two things happens. The government gets more aggressive as it loses control as the country becomes more prosperous and the economy falters badly or the government falters and the economy keeps growing with a more free government. They will and there may be signs that they are hitting a wall between economic growth and authoritarian government. I wish we were pushing harder to promote freedom and free thinking in China.

My bigger concern is that if we don't sweep out the communists (that includes "democratic socialists) from our country that we close the gap by regressing towards them.
 

The Typist
Joined
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Something people complete forget about and I know as Americans our word is not $hit to our allies. **** those fools if they believed us. That's how you make America great again.

Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994

In exchange for Ukraine giving up the Soviet nuclear weapons, the United States agreed to provide assistance.

4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear
We agreed to do this. Now damn it, let us do it and do it right. Assist them to whatever degree is necessary to repel the invaders.

I do not get the "conservative" or whatever right of center self description that thinks this agreement was not a commitment by the U.S. to provide a hell of a lot of assistance if what is happening now and what happened in Crimea happened. There is nothing Ayn Rand about breaking your agreements.

BTW, I think we should have never made this agreement and Ukraine should have remained a weapons state. I don't know why they believed us. Time will tell. If we maintain our support this time, maybe America can prove it's not a giant fraud and this agreement was not a bait and switch. But all those on the right that just want America to be a liar. I don't get it. How does that serve our interests? Once every other country on the planet is aligned with China or Russia, then what? They leave us alone?
 

The Typist
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I say let them have nukes and we鈥檇 all be better off.
That should have been our position when Russia entered Crimea. If you, Russia, don't want to honor the agreement, then Ukraine gets nukes. I told that to one of my MIT-grad coworkers and he about had a cow. Zero American credibility for generations now. This totally what I want is all that matters and whatever promises we made to you, you believed them :ROFLMAO:

Flip things. Would you want to deal with people that can never be trusted to stick to their promises?

We didn't commit to ground forces. We did commit to assist and not just in an "oh well we helped a little so sorry, sucks to be you" way.

That alone is sufficient for massive support. However, just stopping Russia is directly in the primary interest of the United States. We've had about 75 years of relative peace that has led to unbelievable prosperity because we didn't retreat to fortress America. In spite of our multiple bailing on our allies, we have still left Russia and China knowing we will oppose them, so they can't recklessly start the next big war. We have to strike the middle ground of aggressively keeping Russia and China in check as we dealing with the piss ant terrorist like Bin Laden and Iran and not sending the military into every brush fire. We must have a worldwide presence or China and Russia will and it will lead to the next big war. Many little wars are far better. No wars is fantasy.
 

The Typist
Joined
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THAT is what financed Putin's move.
It wasn't financing that made him feel secure in moving on the whole of Ukraine nor his original grab of Crimea during the Obama/Biden administration. It was expectations regarding the response of the U.S. in particular and to a lesser extend the rest of Europe.

I've been listening to an interesting youtube series that goes through WWII week by week. I'm currently in mid 1941. It's interesting to see how completely stupid so many of the leaders were and also to see the horrible position so many little countries were put in. This was in large part because the U.S. did after WWI what the Americans that don't want to support Ukraine or oppose China wanted to do today. There must be a middle ground between declaring "peace in our time" with evil men when you know it cannot be true and a full assault on them. Were we going to send in troops into Yugoslavia? No. But we could have done a lot to have lessened the misery, but America simply was not going to get involved until they were sure to suffer greatly. I fear the same with Russia and China. They want to dominate outside their nations and in the case of China, dominate the whole world. We are just one major miscalculation away from WWIII.

Putin thought Biden would effectively do nothing. So he rolled. Huge numbers have died as a result. Massive suffering has occurred and will continue. Putin could not care less about this suffering any more than Hitler, Stalin, the Japanese, Mussolini, or the many other bad actors in WWII. In fact, Putin and the Chinese have the same barbaric mindset that got us into that horrible war. A complete disregard for the lives of millions. True evil. So if we do not ensure Russia is pushed out of Ukraine, Putin will be happy with the results regardless of the horrific cost. If we stop know and let Ukraine fold, Putin will have ultimately calculated correctly. China will assume they too can make territorial gains and even if 10,000,000 Chinese die, they will see it as progress. They need to have no doubt that we will give more than token opposition because if that is what they think, they will roll. Mass death is not a deterrent to them only defeat is.
 

The Typist
Joined
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I can't verify any of this, just posting for consumption... if true, why is the U.S. supporting a Nazi Brigade in the Ukraine?
Hard to say. War makes strange bedfellows.




I do not disagree that weak leaders create horrible situations. Creepy Joe's nod to the environuts simply made it far more feasible for Putin to pay the very expensive bills of war. Creepy Joe tripled and quadrupled the price AND allowed Putin to grow his volume by abandoning Trump's vision of being a major exporter to Europe.
All that helped and is the exact opposite of what is good for the U.S. and the planet, but none of it was the primary reason for the "minor incursion."
 
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