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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i was just wondering what you all feel is a good all around shot size for ducks and geese. i tried some bis. #4 and that just rocked the geese and ducks at the 5-15 yards we were shootin but it also got a goose at about 40. I was just wondering what others were using with good success
 

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with steel shot i dont think there is an all around shot size for ducks and geese my own preference is bbb for geese and 2 for ducks if you are going to go with one size i would probably say bb but you wont have much pellet count for those small ducks the range has a lot to do with it also if you keep your shots close and choose your shots you might get by with 1's if you are shooting lesser canadas a big goose can take a pretty good hit and keep going i would definitely recommend patterning and go with high velocity shells as for bismuth i dont have any expereince and i havent shot anything with the hevi-shot b's i loaded up so cant help you out there either
 

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perhaps I should've created a new topic but reading this one just caused me to think of another question.
When turkey hunting I have always been taught to aim for the head. Would this work for geese as well? Could you use a smaller shot which would be able to cover the pattern area better if you were to take head shots or would this be too hard to do.
 

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Big_countryks if your shooting geese on the water or on the ground you could go for head shots excluesively but if they're flyin then you want something that has a decent pateren and some snort when it hits them to break bones and get penetration. Nothing smaller than no.2's in anything in my opinion.
 

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Anything from BB-#3 will do the job very well. I nailed 2 honkers last year at 30yd. with 4's and both were dead before they hit the water. My Winglock delrin brought them in so fast I didn't have time to switch to BB :yes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
i just got a box of the bismith to use in my great grandfathers model 12 but ended up usin most of it in my gun. i really like the Kent fasteel 3s...every duck i shot this year with em was dead by the time it hit the water. i also was wondering what chokes you are using for the hevi
 

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whoa time out reddog i am curious where you get your information?i am looking at my ballistics products reloading manuals and it shows steel BB's having 23.8ftlbs of energy and 9.1 inches of gelatin penetration at 3 feet at 1300 fps Hevi shot 4's at the same velocity and distance has 11.72ftlbs of energy and 5.98 inches of gelatin penetration now if we jump to 70 yards the steel BB has 3.3ftlbs of energy and 1.3 inches of gelatin penetration and the HS 4 has 1.32ftlbs of energy and .67 inches of gelatin penetration this shows that the steel bb has twice the energy and penetration of the hs 4 so how could it have the same energy as a BBB? If my manuals are incorrect please let me know as i have no way of doing these tests myself. Not trying to rub you the wrong way just hoping i have enlightened you a little. :thumbsup:
 

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I'm not one for hard numbers, but here's a great article that pretty much affirms by above statement (and I did say roughly). It gets very much into the stats.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/hevi_hitter/

Here is a good chart that it contains:

BALLISTICALLY EQUIVALENT SHOT TYPES
AND COMMON FACTORY LOAD PARAMETERS
Material Shot Density Load Velocity
Steel -----BB --7.86 ---1 1/4 --1,375
Bismuth ---2 --9.6 ----1 5/8 --1,250
Tung-Iron 3 --10.3 ---1 1/8 --1,400
Tung-Mtrx 4 --10.8 ---1 5/8 --1,330
Tung-Poly 4 --10.7 ---1 3/8 --1,330
HEVI-SHT 5 --12.0 ---1 1/4 --1,375

For further enlightenment, head out to the range and shoot load of each at a piece of 1/2 inch plywood from 40 yards. You'll be able to count the Steel BBB's from the front. The Hevi 4's will demolish it.

The above article doesn't even account for the newer 1450 fps Hevi. A real KILLER! :thumbsup:
 

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i looked at the site you posted and i guess the only thing that i can say is that my eleventh edition status of steel and 4th edition handloading hevi-shot must not be correct because the site you showed says that hs4's are moving 647fps at 60 yards and my manual shows hs4's at 511fps at 60 yads with their velocity only 50fps faster at the start something sounds funny to me there i am not saying that hs4's will not kill geese but i dont think they are ballistically the same as bb's let alone bbb's from what i have read as far as the piece of plywood i will take your word for that cause i have not done any tests like that but i am curious what you mean by demolishes? complete penetration? if hs4's are roughly equal to bbb's than i cant wait to use my hsB's that i loaded cause i can kill geese 60 yards with the steel BBB's because according to you my hsB's are equal to size FF in steel which would be one size smaller than 4 buck in steel my manuals state that you should use 2 to 3 sizes smaller than steel and the same size or one size smaller than lead i am fortunate enough to know several old timers and they always used 4 lead for ducks decoy and pass shooting and they used 2 lead and bb lead for decoy and 60 yard pass shooting and they used 4 buck for those 100 to 125 yard shots(back in the day) this is my opinion from what i have learned from ballistic products a company that was producing high velocity steel shot loads 15 years ago way before factory shells were even thinking about 1450+ fps and that is a fact i hope i have not angered you but you have not given me enough hard facts for me to accept what you stated :smile:(i do agree with patternmaster though cant go wrong there)
 

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You certainly haven't angered me. I think I get your point, although (no offense) it is tough to read without punctuation. I can't argue numbers, as I don't have a chronograph, ballistics gel, and the like. All we can do is trust the numbers others feed us (which do often vary), and draw upon our personal observations.

As far as the plywood test - Yes, Hevi 4's go right on through at 40 yards. Every pellet. The back looks like a porcupine. Some Steel BBB's will pass through at 30 yards. Honestly, I was also surprised. I'll take the buzz saw loads every time.

My only other comparison was an Eider/Scoter hunt with 2 buddies. I was shooting 12 ga. 3" Hevi 4's, one was shooting 12 ga. 3" Steel BBB, the other was shooting 10 ga. 3 1/2" Steel BB. All sitting side-by-side on a rock, taking the same shots at the same flocks (30-50 yards). All are decent shooters. All I can say is the tender boat had to chase down quite a few cripples that were dropped by steel. All the birds shot with Hevi were dead in the air, and upon further inspection, all had exit wounds through the body. I was impressed. They're switching.
 

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Those hevi shot #4's are deadly. I started using them this past season and I didn't have a single cripple. Every duck I shot folded up and was dead before it hit the water. When I can't afford Hevi shot I like to use kent fasteel #2's. Of all the steel shell brands, I have found that it patterns best in my 870.
 

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I am sure hs4's are deadly on ducks but I dont think they would be sufficient to shoot geese effectively day in and day out unless you were chasing lessers or keeping your shots within 35-40 yards over the decoys. A giant canada can weigh up to 20lbs with them probably everaging 12 or 13 pounds (this average is my guess). A bird this size is not a easy target they have a lot denser feathers and the skin is a lot tougher than a duck. I have personally witnessed geese shot with steel 2's at 40 yards, they were cripples and the only reason they killed them was because they head shot them. The steel 2's were stuck just inside the feathers barely penetrating the skin. I am not saying hs4's wont kill geese I just think that if you were to shoot a little too far back on them they wouldnt come down, would you body shoot a turkey at 40 yards with hs4's? A young jake would weigh close to that of a goose and they dont have near as tough a hide or dense of feathers of a goose, next time you kill a goose pick him up by the breast feathers and give him a little jerk how many feathers come out? Do the same with a turkey and you will have a handfull of feathers. I may be way off base on this, I dont know for sure but no. 4's in hs SOUNDS small for geese maybe its not but I think that if I were going to chase both species at the same time with one load that I would rather overkill on the ducks than underkill on the geese.
 
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