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I have done a little reading lately and I guess to sum it up "speed kills"

I do alot of snow goose hunting when the season comes around. More than most average people probably 4-5 times a week.

This year I shot nothing but triple B 10 gauge 9/16 1500 federal shells.

My question is the majority of my shots are 35-40 yard pass shots (dike shooting) especially in the later months. Is speed really better than lets say a t shot at those ranges?

I'm kinda screwed cause I shoot a 10 gauge but for my brother the kent fast steel 1625 3 1/2 1 1/4 ounce shells are kinda entertaining.

Thanks for the help guys.
 

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inside 50 yards on geese, shoot a fast load of 1's. www.sportingammo.com makes a 1 3/8oz load at 1600fps that really smokes em with 1's or B's. i really like 1's tho. thats about all i shoot at geese with my 10's. the game warden will think your shootin lead :biggrin:
 

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1 9/16 oz of steel BBB contain about 95 pellets and at 32 F and sea level will penetrate to kill to 67yds at 1500 fps, 1 1/4 oz of steel 1's about 129 pellets and will penetrate to kill to 60 yds at 1625 fps. You didn't say the size of shot for this load so I just stuck steel 1's in it. I shoot 7/8 oz of steel B's at 1724 fps and they will penetrate to kill to 64+ yds. At 4000 ft where I hunt they will penetrate to 73 yds. For snows I shoot generally 1 1/16 oz of steel 1's at 1730 fps. They will penetrate to 70+ yds here in Castro County of the Panhandle of Tx. Ned S
 

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You don't need to shoot BBB at snows under 40 yards. They're not giant canadians. They're like big mallards really. Would you shoot BBB's at mallards? You'd be better served going with a smaller faster shot. 1's are good for snows over decoys. I shoot mostly B's for everything from jump, to pass, to decoy hunting when comes to snows. I could go smaller, but I don't like to be limited, and I don't like eating steel.
 

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Ned, How do you come up with those distances that steel will penetrate? I have a short list that gives me the distance that shot will penetrate human skin but nothing about its penetration on game. Is there a formula that you plug size and speed into? Thanks.
 

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Nope! No formula, just a simple rule of thumb. The RSI Guru, Dr. Jon Samuelson says any steel shot traveling 575 fps will penetrate to kill. I have found that 600 fps is more realistic. That''s what Brezny uses also. It is well documented as the size of steel shot goes up the energy required to penetrate also goes up because of the increase of frontal area. The 600 fps rule takes care of this. I then look up the 3 ft velocity on Lowery's ShotShell Ballistic program, correct for elevation and temperature and see at what yardage the pellet reaches 600 fps. If you don't like the 600 fps value just plug in whatever suits your "fancy". As pattern density also controls the theoretical max killing distance you can calculate the number of birds in a circle by weight. It takes 4 pellets to kill a mallard and snows and 5 pellets to kill geese. The projected kill area of waterfowl in sq inches is 88% of a birds weight in ounces per Sir Gerald Burrard a Brit. I use 80% just 'cause. So a mallard drake weighs 2 1/2 pounds and his projected killing area is
.80(16 oz)(2.5 lb=32 sq inches. There are 707 sq inches in a 30" dia pattern circle so there are 707 divided by 32 = 22 drake mallards in a circle and 4 X 22=88 min pellets fairly evenly spaced in your pattern to put 4 pellets in a drake. I prefer around 100. Now you do your pattern work at the nominal distance you want to kill drake mallards.
Lets now do it for a 6 lb snow .80(16 oz)(6 lb)=76.8 sq inches.
707 divided by 76.8=9.2 snows in the 30" circle. It takes 4 pellets to kill a snow so you need a min of 4 X 9.2 or 37 pellets in the circle at the distance you will be shooting. The bigger the bird the less pellets required in the circle. A 10 lb goose requires 28 pellets.
That's why I snocker geese with 7/8 oz of steel B's at 1724 fps out to 50 yds with a 68 out of 95 pellet load which will penetrate to kill to 73 yds at 32F where I live. On 8lb lessers I only need 35 pellets in the circle to put 5 in the goose. Remember we are talking about fairly even patterns. If I have one 10.5" hole (the projected kill area of a 8 lb goose) in my pattern, which I don't, I have one in seven chance of hitting the goose with the hole. That's why guys kill with shoddy patterns. Now you are as smart as me, probably smarter. I hope you now understand why I shoot the small fast stuff loads. It really isn't small but very efficient because of the total energy hitting the bird. Ned S
 

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We don't get lessers or snows where I hunt. We shoot all big Canada's and I shoot almost all 1 3/16 oz. #1 at 1550 this year. It crushed them to 40 yd. and I killed a few well past that, but tried not to if I could help it. I like fast BB better for stuff around 50 yd. For the range you are shooting I would give #1 a go at 1500 plus. Inside 45 yd. it killed them better than any of the 3 1/2" loads of BBB I used to shoot. After going small and fast shot I would never go back to anything larger than BB and when my BB shot is gone I am going to get some B for my longer range load.
 

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Ned S said:
Nope! No formula, just a simple rule of thumb. The RSI Guru, Dr. Jon Samuelson says any steel shot traveling 575 fps will penetrate to kill. I have found that 600 fps is more realistic. That''s what Brezny uses also. It is well documented as the size of steel shot goes up the energy required to penetrate also goes up because of the increase of frontal area. The 600 fps rule takes care of this.
Ned,

Hevi-shot (density 12.0) with a velocity of 485 fps will give the same penetration as steel (density 7.8) with a velocity of 600 fps.

Tom*
 

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Yep ! and my 7/8 oz of steel loads at 1724 fps costs me $4.47 a box of 25. That's only <18 Cents a shell. I use more ammo on the pattern board during the summer, about 12 boxes worth. It's harder to kill the pattern paper. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Ned S
 

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Ned S said:
Yep ! and my 7/8 oz of steel loads at 1724 fps costs me $4.47 a box of 25. That's only <18 Cents a shell. I use more ammo on the pattern board during the summer, about 12 boxes worth. It's harder to kill the pattern paper.
Ned S
You have it wired! :yes:

The pattern paper tastes terrible though.
 
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