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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am attempting to train my 3 yr. old Golden to duck hunt. He is good at dove hunting but doesn't have to be as steady. Out of a scale of 1-10 10 being the best he is about a 4 on ducks. I am thinking about a shock collar to get through his hard head. Any thoughts?? :help:
 

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A shock collar can be a dangerous thing when in the hands of someone who doesnt know how to use one.

That said---Does the dog know what it is supposed to be doing and not doing it or is it unsure about what to do and there is a gap in your training.

What is the dog not doing?

The E collar is a reach out and touch them tool. If he does what he is supposed to do when you are near him because he knows you can get to him to correct him, then doesnt listen when out further, then this is a good example of when you need an ecollar

If the dog goes out short distances searches then comes back to you with nothing----That would mean there is a gap in your training.

Let us know a little more info on what the problem is and then someone should be able to help alittle more.

:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
His main problems are that he breaks before I send him. I have tried tieing a rope around me then to his collar and he does great. However, when I thinnk he has it down and remove the rope he bolts as soon as I throw a dummy.

THe only other major problem I am having is that when he has a double retrieve he tends to grab one dummy and then go to the second before delivering the first one to me.

My thinking was that the shock collar would allow me to get him before he gets to the dummies when he does it wrong. Dove hunting is easy to him, he knows what to do. Duck hunting is new to him. He loves the cold weather and water has never been a problem. It's like he just refuses to cooperate.
 

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I would try a couple of things before moving to an e collar.

breaking--get a good pinch collar--not one of the metal ones--Go to LCS or and of the hunting dog web stores and get one of the leather ones. Try that with him. I wouldnt tie it to you either. I would hold very lightly onto the slack end and if he breaks hold on tight and lean back alittle. Him getting thrown off his feet plus the pinch should set pretty well with him. If that doesnt work I would move to still having the pinch collar to the check cord , but now tie a half knot around his waiste. If he breaks do the same hold on tight and lean back. He will get thrown off his feet, pinched in the neck, and around the waiste.

I have never seen a dog need any more than that.

As far as going for one dummy and then going for the other I would say that is a gap in your training. Has the dog been foced fetched?

If not look into force fetching and go from there. :thumbsup:
 

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Short answer is no...

Long answer is maybe...

While I AM a huge fan and user of e-collars, I'm of the opinion that you should NOT use a collar at this time. You need to TEACH the dog with everything OTHER THAN an e-collar.

There are plenty of tools, let's take being steady for instance. Put the dog on a lead and teach him to be steady. Put him on a longer lead and let him 'yank' himself when he is not steady. AFTER you have steadied the dog, or taught him anything else required in his duck dog training, is when you can start using a collar.

'SHOCK' collars are for keeping a dog from barking, keeping him from fighting with other dogs, keeping him off of the furniture, or out of the trash. TRAINING collars are tools for fine tuning a working dog. You need to study on how a collar is INTRODUCED, and EMPLOYED in your training. These are two distinct differences. Before you use a training collar you need to understand these differences, understand how you need to use the collar, and come up with a plan on how you WILL use it.

Just my opinion...
 

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Just read your response to the other replies...

NO is a command that should stop a dog in his tracks. Usually all it take is the proper tone of voice. If giving the dog a NO doesn't shame him into getting back into position, he isn't trained.

From then on, my other response is still my response...
 

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Steve- Did your dog not ever break before you started using the training or shock collar? If used correctly I think a "training collar" could fix this. If the dog knows he should not break, but breaks because you cannot correct him, this seems like a picture perfect example of how training collars are used.
 

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In my opinion breaking on a retrieve is no more than disobedience. I'm assuming you tell the dog to sit, throw the bumper, the dog breaks to retrieve. Sit means sit until you tell the dog otherwise. It doesn't mean sit until the dog decides to get up or sit until I stop paying attention to the dog. For this reason, there is really no need for a stay command, because the dogs butt should be on the ground until instructed to do something else. This is where basic obedience plays into steps further down the line. My dog being a pointer, I do not have her sit for retrieves, yet I just bring her to heel and throw the bumper. She heels until I tell her to fetch.

If the dog knows the sit command, then the e-collar would be a good approach to formalize the command with pressure. One good thing to keep in mind is that the e-collar is only an implement of force, not a trainer. There is only one difference between the collar and a whip, stick, or the palm of your hand, and this is the ease and distance in which you can implement the force with the e-collar.

If you go with a pinch collar, definitley go with the leather one mfetter is talking about.
 

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Duckdaddy said:
I am attempting to train my 3 yr. old Golden to duck hunt. He is good at dove hunting but doesn't have to be as steady. Out of a scale of 1-10 10 being the best he is about a 4 on ducks. I am thinking about a shock collar to get through his hard head. Any thoughts?? :help:
Mike,

I was answering more in the context of Duckdaddy's particular situation. I'm seeing a 3 year old Golden that probably hasn't been through a particularly in-depth obedience regiment, at least that is what I read 'between the lines'. Also between the lines I saw 'shock' collar, and an intent of 'breaking' the dog from something. While that might be a solution it is not really fair to the dog unless he's been through comprehensive OB and collar conditioned.

That is just my opinion. I'm all about using an e-collar but I would rather see it used to 'fine tune' the dog. I'd rather see non-electronic means used to get the dog the majority of the way there, in this case, not doing a clean break. If he was 'cheating', I'd say go for it.

As always, this is just me and my opinion...

And I'm one to give advice on this!!! I had my dog on a hunt where he had to be about 60 or 70 yards away in a boat while I stood by a tree close to my Dad. He broke like a cheap broom the ENTIRE day. I've never been more frustrated! That day I did turn on his collar and give him a 'jolt' or two, but he damn well knew better. You can bet I'll have this corrected during our first Snow Goose hunt next week, and I won't have to use the collar to get it done. I'd rather shame him into compliance than anything else, it seems to stick with him longer when I do.

Hope you had a good season, and I might be hitting you up for some help here before long!

Later....
 

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Duckdaddy said:
His main problems are that he breaks before I send him. I have tried tieing a rope around me then to his collar and he does great. However, when I thinnk he has it down and remove the rope he bolts as soon as I throw a dummy.

THe only other major problem I am having is that when he has a double retrieve he tends to grab one dummy and then go to the second before delivering the first one to me.

My thinking was that the shock collar would allow me to get him before he gets to the dummies when he does it wrong. Dove hunting is easy to him, he knows what to do. Duck hunting is new to him. He loves the cold weather and water has never been a problem. It's like he just refuses to cooperate.
Here is what made me feel that my 'between the lines' hunches were correct. If a NO and a HERE don't make the dog comply to breaking and returning after a retrieve, he isn't trained. Might be part of the way there, but he isn't 'there'. He needs to be almost there before a collar is used. All the drive in the world is useless unless you can control the dog. If it were a pro asked to CORRECT a problem 'el pronto', it is a no-brainer. If it is someone inexperienced, my opinion is they shouldn't be 'breaking' anything.
 
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