Think of it as walking into a field from the parking lot with the dog at heel. The field is full of pheasant, dog can't see them but knows they are there somewhere. You then release the dog to 'hunt them'. 'Huntemup'.

Huntemup up is trained early, use of birds. Calculated so they succeed young. Over and over. Not just dead birds but lives ones too.

I use the word 'bird'. It's easy to say. When I say 'bird' the dog knows to go find a bird. And there's always a bird out there to find.

 

That part i understand. I was referring to the comment you made in another topic. I cast my dog 100 150 yrds on a dead or crippled bird and i can get him in the general area. What or how do you tell the dog he is now on his own.

 

That part i understand. I was referring to the comment you made in another topic. I cast my dog 100 150 yrds on a dead or crippled bird and i can get him in the general area. What or how do you tell the dog he is now on his own.

That was my answer. You release it to hunt on it's own. Just like you would if you were releasing it from your side to go find birds.

 

Guess i should add that the 'release' needs to be very definitive. You are breaking the rules of the true blind by allowing it to use it's nose so the release needs to be very obvious and clear. How you move your arms or what you holler is up to you.

 

I used to use some softer short tweets on my whistle when in the area of the bird. I have a FT trained BLF now that knows when hunting and hits scent to follow it up. Earlier this season hit a mallard that sailed over a tall patch of berries and so couldn't see where the bird went in a large field of cut corn. I sent her from the edge of the field on a line for 250 plus yds. Went from right to left. The stalks were just tall enough to hide the dog after 100 yds. . Fanned with each cast moving to the right. On the third cast she must have hit scent way out, still couldn't see her but she came packing. Fortunately she carries her casts well.

 

The release I use is Hup Hup she knows it well, A little to well. They condition themselfs to a release great.
Be very careful of how often you let them hunt it up, or they will think they don't need you. Don't ask how I know this.....
Mine is straightened now but it was a man made problem. Hntfsh advise of 10 to 1 ratio while training is a good balance to keep the skill intact.

Spry

 

A clear loud vocal, "hunt dead". Most hunting blinds I will handle directly to the bird. The only time I will give a hunt dead is if the bird has fallen in heavy cover and I am not sure exactly where it is.

I will add that if I can walk to the general area of the bird, ie no swim, I will do that after the hunt and just have the dog hunt rather than line him to an area and give the command.

 

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything. A dog with a good nose is always "hunting" even when following casts on a blind, they're just under more control. Get the dog in the area or down wind and let them have at it.

 

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything. A dog with a good nose is always "hunting" even when following casts on a blind, they're just under more control. Get the dog in the area or down wind and let them have at it.

So the dog will know the old fall scent isn't the new fall scent when it crosses over it?

 

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything. A dog with a good nose is always "hunting" even when following casts on a blind, they're just under more control. Get the dog in the area or down wind and let them have at it.

So the dog will know the old fall scent isn't the new fall scent when it crosses over it?

No, a dog will drop their head on any scent cone or old fall. That's what training for casting through old falls does. Tweet, cast, continue to the next fall area. In a hunting situation I'd be hard pressed to know any human that can accurately mark a fall as well as a fair marking dog. Even if sent on a mark and the dog gets hung up in an old fall, tweet, cast, and the dog can continue deeper to the current fall.

 

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything. A dog with a good nose is always "hunting" even when following casts on a blind, they're just under more control. Get the dog in the area or down wind and let them have at it.

So the dog will know the old fall scent isn't the new fall scent when it crosses over it?

No, a dog will drop their head on any scent cone or old fall. That's what training for casting through old falls does. Tweet, cast, continue to the next fall area. In a hunting situation I'd be hard pressed to know any human that can accurately mark a fall as well as a fair marking dog. Even if sent on a mark and the dog gets hung up in an old fall, tweet, cast, and the dog can continue deeper to the current fall.

When the dog gets to where I thought the bird was and doesn't come up with it, I stop him and use my upland command with a goofy arm signal to release him. They very well may be able to recognize and distinguish an old scent from a fresh one, they can recognize a back track. There is an awful lot about how dogs use their noses that we just don't know.

 

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything. A dog with a good nose is always "hunting" even when following casts on a blind, they're just under more control. Get the dog in the area or down wind and let them have at it.

So the dog will know the old fall scent isn't the new fall scent when it crosses over it?

No, a dog will drop their head on any scent cone or old fall. That's what training for casting through old falls does. Tweet, cast, continue to the next fall area. In a hunting situation I'd be hard pressed to know any human that can accurately mark a fall as well as a fair marking dog. Even if sent on a mark and the dog gets hung up in an old fall, tweet, cast, and the dog can continue deeper to the current fall.

I'd prefer for the sake of less whistling afield, to have the dog take the line until it's at the spot I want it to stop and release it. Maintaining the same principles for hunting and testing makes it all easier, in both.

 

Ok, lets set it up where you bounced a duck on the ground in some cover and I'd like to see your dog keep a line through it without them dropping their head and breaking stride. I run field trials and train with pros that have won nationals and even national caliber dogs will check up when they hit a heavy sent pocket.

 

Ok, lets set it up where you bounced a duck on the ground in some cover and I'd like to see your dog keep a line through it without them dropping their head and breaking stride. I run field trials and train with pros that have won nationals and even national caliber dogs will check up when they hit a heavy sent pocket.

That's fine, a dog is a dog.

That example is a little different than your first comment though:

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything.

Dropping it's head, stumbling across an old scent that gets the dogs attention afield is a lot different than 'out-of-control'. Field Trial set-ups and what's being tested is controlled. Hunting isn't.

That's my point. The dog having a clear objective, consistently, is what's important.

 

I askd this question to the breeder/ttrainer i just got my pup from. He heeld his dog up gave him a dead bird back 60~70yrds stop whistle then yelled hunt em up dog started doing circles.

 

Ok, lets set it up where you bounced a duck on the ground in some cover and I'd like to see your dog keep a line through it without them dropping their head and breaking stride. I run field trials and train with pros that have won nationals and even national caliber dogs will check up when they hit a heavy sent pocket.

That's fine, a dog is a dog.

That example is a little different than your first comment though:

Not necessary to have a command of its own. Most dogs will start to become out of control anyways once they get into an area of scent. Just give the last cast you want and see if the dog comes up with anything.

Dropping it's head, stumbling across an old scent that gets the dogs attention afield is a lot different than 'out-of-control'. Field Trial set-ups and what's being tested is controlled. Hunting isn't.

That's my point. The dog having a clear objective, consistently, is what's important.

This^. Chaws, we aren't talking about a FT blind where the bird stays put. In your example of giving the last cast you want, what happens when the dog comes up empty, either because the handler mis-marked it, or because it moved? At that point I give my dogs permission to honor their nose with a specific command. It hardly equates to "becoming out of control".

 

When sending a dog on a blind and then the dog honoring their nose is considered out of control. The dog is under their own control at that point when they're not following the line they were sent on. I'm having a hard time figuring out where the problem went in this conversation. I've trained my own MH titled and QAA first place dog and he's also picked up well over 2,000 birds in the wild here in Nodak. Point the dog into the area of the fall, get them down wind of the area and once the dog hits a scent cone, let em be and he'll come up with the bird. I judge field trials as well so maybe that's where the term out of control is confusing everyone here. The dog when not carrying a cast, whether that cast be a whistle or arm motion, is considered out of control in those venues.

 

When sending a dog on a blind and then the dog honoring their nose is considered out of control. The dog is under their own control at that point when they're not following the line they were sent on. I'm having a hard time figuring out where the problem went in this conversation. I've trained my own MH titled and QAA first place dog and he's also picked up well over 2,000 birds in the wild here in Nodak. Point the dog into the area of the fall, get them down wind of the area and once the dog hits a scent cone, let em be and he'll come up with the bird. I judge field trials as well so maybe that's where the term out of control is confusing everyone here. The dog when not carrying a cast, whether that cast be a whistle or arm motion, is considered out of control in those venues.

Who said anything about not carrying a cast? There is no cast in the situation I am describing unless the dog gets off the initial line. I understand what OofC means in a FT context, but as I said, I am giving the dog permission to hunt in specific circumstances. If he didn't get that permission, he had best not honor his nose.

 

I have owned several dogs that play dog games and hunt a lot. Those dogs know the difference between a test and hunting. When sent on a hunting blind, they know what to do.

 

Pretty nice that you guys hunt places where you can always see the dog to stop him and tell him to hunt 'em up.

 

Pretty nice that you guys hunt places where you can always see the dog to stop him and tell him to hunt 'em up.

I'd be careful with the word 'always' but by and large that works. If hunting birds in cover so heavy you can't see the dog, and the dog can't mark most falls, might wanna figure your shots different.

 

Pretty nice that you guys hunt places where you can always see the dog to stop him and tell him to hunt 'em up.

I'd be careful with the word 'always' but by and large that works. If hunting birds in cover so heavy you can't see the dog, and the dog can't mark most falls, might wanna figure your shots different.

I could have said, "often" or even "occasionally," instead of "always," and the point would have been the same: there are a great many hunting venues where one won't see the dog at the area of the fall to direct him, and one's best bet for recovering game is a dog that knows he's allowed to break down and hunt when his nose and/or experience suggests he do so.

 

I send mine on a line to the area I believe the bird went down, give a sit whistle, and use "look for it" as my release command. If the dog is going after a bird that sailed out of sight into cover, which happens a lot when hunting with bigger groups of people, I just send him on a line in that direction and let him hunt. It is crazy to me that so many people try to keep a dog from using his #1 tool which is his nose. Probably not the pro way of doing things but it works for us in real world hunting situations.

 

Pretty nice that you guys hunt places where you can always see the dog to stop him and tell him to hunt 'em up.

I'd be careful with the word 'always' but by and large that works. If hunting birds in cover so heavy you can't see the dog, and the dog can't mark most falls, might wanna figure your shots different.

So are you saying that you would move off of the "x" to accommodate your dog?

 

Pretty nice that you guys hunt places where you can always see the dog to stop him and tell him to hunt 'em up.

I'd be careful with the word 'always' but by and large that works. If hunting birds in cover so heavy you can't see the dog, and the dog can't mark most falls, might wanna figure your shots different.

So are you saying that you would move off of the "x" to accommodate your dog?

Insert plond barb here.