[ElmerThud]

I have been thinking of a 5/8oz #8 TSS - 5/8oz #1 Steel load for an all purpose 1 1/4oz 3'' 12gauge duck and goose load

my thought being that with aprox 160 #8's in 5/8 oz and aprox 63 #1's in 5/8 oz for a total pellet count of aprox 223.

that's the equivalent pellet count/pattern density of a 1 1/4oz #4 steel Shotshell (which seems to have great pattern density at the ranges I shoot, just lacks in pellet energy and penetration at those ranges.) so with every pellet delivering as much penetration as a #1 or more. in fact 72% of the pay load is #8 tss which penetrates better then #1 steel, I think it would be a hammer.

my only concern is the ballistics characteristics of the #8 tss not matching up very well with that of the #1 steel. and potentially causing a longer then normal shot string.

I have seen hawglips in a old post compare the energy and penetration depth of #9 tss and BB steel in a duplex load as fairly similar.

"at 40 yards
Steel BB
72/oz, 758 fps final velocity, 305.4 ft-lbs/sq in, 2.35" gel penetration

TSS 9s (smaller than standard - the ones they were shooting above)
391/oz, 749 fps final velocity, 290.4 ft-lbs/sq in, 2.24" gel penetration

TSS 9s (standard size)
360/oz, 765 fps final velocity, 315 ft-lbs/sq in, 2.42" gel penetration" (copied from a hawglips post on this site)

I am unsure if that would equate to fairly similar ballistic characteristics between the #9 tss and BB steel as well or not. but if that was the case it would lead me to think I might be better of with a #9 tss / #1 or BB steel duplex load. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around how small the #9s are.

or is the different density's between tss and steel not able to be compensated for by miss matching shot sizes to achieve similar ballistic characteristics and a normal length shot string? do the 2 metals just separate from each other down range no matter the miss matching of shot sizes to compensate for this?

anyways I'm looking for input, suggestions, opinions and all that junk. let me have it

 

[dduckman]

NO idea on any particulars, but a tiny tss 9 is going to travel through the air much more efficiently, the tiny size and density of that stuff makes for a remarkable pellet.

I have only used it for turkey, 9s and 9.5s, amazing what those lil pellets do!

Only heavy stuff I have thrown at geese has been hevi shot, the federal heavy weight(15 gcc) and the old Winchester x range. The federal in a number 4 was an absolute hammer on geese!

I shoot decoying birds, a 9x1 sounds quite good to me. The TSS should retain it's velocity more efficiently also. Big heavt late season honkers maybe an 8 would be preferred?

 

[derbyacresbob]

TSS+Steel Duplexing: what sizes?

Duplexing TSS + Steel I’ve already covered in detail when Steel shot alone might be enough for you in another blog post, “TSS + Steel Duplexing: when is steel enough?” If you&#82…

pipesf16.wordpress.com

Check out the above link. This link is in Dave In Az Blog.

 

[derbyacresbob]

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics, all of this info is with 1350 fps loads with 1/2 oz of shot.

TSS #9 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 70.5 yards.
Steel #2 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 43.4 yards.
TSS #7 shot, 91 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 70.1 yards.
Steel BB shot, 35 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 34.2 yards.
TSS #8 shot, 125 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 52.3 yards.

1.50" of gel penetration is for ducks and 2.50" is for big honkers.

 

[ElmerThud]

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics, all of this info is with 1350 fps loads with 1/2 oz of shot.

TSS #9 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 70.5 yards.
Steel #2 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 43.4 yards.
TSS #7 shot, 91 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 70.1 yards.
Steel BB shot, 35 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 34.2 yards.
TSS #8 shot, 125 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 52.3 yards.

1.50" of gel penetration is for ducks and 2.50" is for big honkers.

what formula are you using to get these gel penetration results? I know that a lot of people use formulas where a constant velocity gives the same penetration across all shot sizes. ex: 700fps will yield X'' of penetration with all shot sizes. which is not the case. I believe those formulas have provided a base line that seems to have helped lots of people develop loads they are happy with, but that doesn't make the math accurate or correct.

 

[BBK]

From KPY Shotshell Ballistics, all of this info is with 1350 fps loads with 1/2 oz of shot.

TSS #9 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 70.5 yards.
Steel #2 shot, 178 pellets, gets 1.50" of gel penetration at 43.4 yards.
TSS #7 shot, 91 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 70.1 yards.
Steel BB shot, 35 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 34.2 yards.
TSS #8 shot, 125 pellets, gets 2.50" of gel penetration at 52.3 yards.

1.50" of gel penetration is for ducks and 2.50" is for big honkers.

Every time i read these numbers posted i have to laugh, not at you but at the mojo outdoors guys who boast on tv about how great tss #7.5s are on teal. They shoot them for teal and i think FOURS for big ducks.

 

[ElmerThud]

NO idea on any particulars, but a tiny tss 9 is going to travel through the air much more efficiently, the tiny size and density of that stuff makes for a remarkable pellet.

I have only used it for turkey, 9s and 9.5s, amazing what those lil pellets do!

Only heavy stuff I have thrown at geese has been hevi shot, the federal heavy weight(15 gcc) and the old Winchester x range. The federal in a number 4 was an absolute hammer on geese!

I shoot decoying birds, a 9x1 sounds quite good to me. The TSS should retain it's velocity more efficiently also. Big heavt late season honkers maybe an 8 would be preferred?

Every time i read these numbers posted i have to laugh, not at you but at the mojo outdoors guys who boast on tv about how great tss #7.5s are on teal. They shoot them for teal and i think FOURS for big ducks.

I agree hard to wrap your head around that small of a pellet but no a #7.5TSS packs a hell of a punch. more then needed in most loads. that is why I'm trying to choose between #8's and #9's.

we use steel because its cheap and readily available, lead is illegal and the other non tox alternatives are expensive. All that aside steel really is a terrible metal for a hunting projectile. (not saying it doesn't work of course it does)
most of the hw13 guys shoot #4 shot. most of the hw15 guys shoot #6 and most tss guys shoot #9's I believe is starting to be the trend. and with great success. if your shot size decision making process is always comparing things to steel then its hard to even grasp the possibility's of TSS

 

[BBK]

I shoot HW15 7s for giant canada geese with great result. 40 yards and under they look like you hit them with a bus going 80mph. Ducks too. I havent reached out any farther than that on honkers yet.

Bismuth 4s also work really really well and comes in at about $1-1.20 a shot for me.

I shoot all 20 gauge now and the only steel I shoot is 4s for up close decoying ducks, and fast 7s for teal.

I wonder what ballistics are for 7.5 TSS on teal, probably need like 0.5" of penetration so maybe 120yds?? Yeah they claim its the best 20yd teal load there is...

 

[BBK]

And as far as penetration, i dont think you need 2.5" for these small pellets. Your pattern is so dense that its impossible to not hit the neck if you do accidentally body punch one. Granted you will have shot left in the meat, and they are almost impossible to find without a good magnet. Youll be surprised how much better you shoot with small heavy non tox, im killing way more than I normally do and i am a firm believer that they fly through my pattern when shooting for heads with big steel. They cant do it with a tight pattern of small tungsten, at least not mine... Itll kill a turkey at 40yds, and that is the pattern i like. The last honker i body punched had 38 holes through the breast. It was stone dead and surprising still very edible, the tungsten doesnt do a lot of damage to meat

 

[ElmerThud]

And as far as penetration, i dont think you need 2.5" for these small pellets. Your pattern is so dense that its impossible to not hit the neck if you do accidentally body punch one. Granted you will have shot left in the meat, and they are almost impossible to find without a good magnet. Youll be surprised how much better you shoot with small heavy non tox, im killing way more than I normally do and i am a firm believer that they fly through my pattern when shooting for heads with big steel. They cant do it with a tight pattern of small tungsten, at least not mine... Itll kill a turkey at 40yds, and that is the pattern i like. The last honker i body punched had 38 holes through the breast. It was stone dead and surprising still very edible, the tungsten doesnt do a lot of damage to meat

I agree with birds slipping through the pattern of large steel shot, I shoot a fair amount of birds on the water and sometimes i can see my pattern land all around them and watch them take off. often a couple feathers on the water like they were hit but just not enough to kill.

im curious about some of the loads you like to use as it looks like you've been down the road I'm about to head down.
what's your hw15 #7 load? and the bismuth #4 load? and do you shoot any TSS? (just looking for payload/pellet count and velocity not the whole recipe or anything)

 

[Dr Swane]

I’ve been duplexing steel 1’s and hw15 6’s or 7’s
in 1.10oz total payload, 2.75” shell. Those hammer geese.

Steel 2’s and TSS 9’s is a common factory load. Those work for geese and ducks. Apex Factory loads are steel bottom, tss on top (1oz steel 0.25oztss). 3” hull 1450fps.

if you load with tss below the steel, the pattern should open up more. The factory stuff patterns tightly.

 

[Dr Swane]

I shoot HW15 7s for giant canada geese with great result. 40 yards and under they look like you hit them with a bus going 80mph. Ducks too. I havent reached out any farther than that on honkers yet.

Bismuth 4s also work really really well and comes in at about $1-1.20 a shot for me.

I shoot all 20 gauge now and the only steel I shoot is 4s for up close decoying ducks, and fast 7s for teal.

I wonder what ballistics are for 7.5 TSS on teal, probably need like 0.5" of penetration so maybe 120yds?? Yeah they claim its the best 20yd teal load there is...

We seem to think and hunt along the same ideas. I’m a bismuth # 4 or 3.5guy ,and hw15 is fine for me, tss seems like overkill. Twice the price as hw15 as well.

 

[BBK]

Im shooting 1 1/8 hw15 7 factory loads, but I set aside the rest of what I have left and will reload the shot into 7/8 or 1 oz for next year most likely.

Bismuth is 7/8oz at 1300-1325.

 

[ElmerThud]

where are you guys buying your hw15 shot? i know people get the hw13 at bucks run sports. is that where to get the hw15 as well? or is there somewhere else? the way i see it is hw13 #4's, hw15's #6-7, TSS #8-9 seem to be making people pretty happy.

 

[BBK]

Ballistic products

 

[ElmerThud]

so its the sphero tungsten 15gc #7 you are buying? i was hoping to get some #6 but it doesnt look like they offer that.

i know some guys are getting #6 hw15 somewhere, any ideas?

 

[micneador]

so its the sphero tungsten 15gc #7 you are buying? i was hoping to get some #6 but it doesnt look like they offer that.

i know some guys are getting #6 hw15 somewhere, any ideas?

BPI has it as well. They carry sizes #7-#4.

Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

 

[Dr Swane]

I’ve picked up 4 cases in 12gauge and 10gauge older federal Turkey loads and have been swapping out the hw15 and beads/buffer for duplexed loads in 12, 28, and straight hw15 in .410.
The factory turkey loads are then reloaded with steel 2’s, 1’s, or b’s.

 

[SMD71]

I shoot HW15 7s for giant canada geese with great result. 40 yards and under they look like you hit them with a bus going 80mph. Ducks too. I havent reached out any farther than that on honkers yet.

Bismuth 4s also work really really well and comes in at about $1-1.20 a shot for me.

I shoot all 20 gauge now and the only steel I shoot is 4s for up close decoying ducks, and fast 7s for teal.

I wonder what ballistics are for 7.5 TSS on teal, probably need like 0.5" of penetration so maybe 120yds?? Yeah they claim its the best 20yd teal load there is...

If you could afford tss , you'd shoot it.

 

[ElmerThud]

the only hw15 #6 i am finding is the tinplated version not the original plain tungsten that is offered in the #7 size.

my thinking being that the tin plating is taking up space therefore the pellet inside that is tungsten would be smaller then a #6 since the outside diameter of the tin plating is a #6. or the inside tungsten pellet is a #6 then the tin plating would make it slightly larger.

so im looking for the original plain tungsten hw15 #6. any ideas guys?