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People should be free to choose the shot or not, and they kind of are though Creepy Joe is cranking up the pressure in a most communist way.

Hospitals and doctors should be able to treat patients by any means that makes sense, and they are NOT. The protocol for people who go to the hospital is to make them comfortable and wait to see if you need to put them on a ventilator. May as well just stay home and see how it goes. The do nothing approach is the legal liability-free approach for doctors and hospitals.

Just stop withholding therapies that are highly effective.
 

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Well, ****!

Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of infection is a safety concern for vaccine strategies. In a recent publication, Li et al. (Cell 184 :1-17, 2021) have reported that infection-enhancing antibodies directed against the N-terminal domain (NTD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein facilitate virus infection in vitro, but not in vivo. However, this study was performed with the original Wuhan/D614G strain. Since the Covid-19 pandemic is now dominated with Delta variants, we analyzed the interaction of facilitating antibodies with the NTD of these variants. Using molecular modelling approaches, we show that enhancing antibodies have a higher affinity for Delta variants than for Wuhan/D614G NTDs. We show that enhancing antibodies reinforce the binding of the spike trimer to the host cell membrane by clamping the NTD to lipid raft microdomains. This stabilizing mechanism may facilitate the conformational change that induces the demasking of the receptor binding domain. As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).
And we were told ADE would not be a problem with SARS-COV2....it was all Bull****!

Journal of Infection:
Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination?
 

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170 Maternity nurses resign at NY hospital over mandatory vaccinations forcing hospital to halt baby deliveries services.
NY Hospital Forced To Stop Delivering Babies After Maternity Workers Resign Over Vaccine | ZeroHedge

I do not think Bidens mandate has a snowballs chance in hell of actually being instituted, but if I am wrong, I predict what happened here at this hospital goes viral across the country. Many companies will be screwed when 20% or more of the workforce walks away. You think the economy is bad now??? Just wait......
 

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Discussion Starter · #725 ·
I don't know the actual numbers spinnerman, but it is significant when looking at keeping people out of hospitals.
The unvaccinated are about 200 times more likely to die. We know the vaccine is highly effective.

Even accepting that ivermectin is significant and you can get the proper dosage, why not use both?

With the vaccine, you are far less likely to get infected in the first place, but if you do, the chances it's problematic are greatly reduced. Why put all your faith in something we don't know how effective it is or even if it's anything more than a placebo?

I don't understand the logic.
 

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We know the vaccine is highly effective.
You keep repeating this over and over....
Currently it is the vaccinated that are getting hammered the hardest and filling up the hospitals.
The vaccine does NOT give durable immunity. Your B cells do not have lasting antibody memory as would happen with any other traditional vaccine against other pathogens OR natural immunty from contracting Covid. The vaccine does NOT prevent the vaccinated from contracting the Coronavirus. The vaccine is nothing more than a monoclonal antibodies by a different mechanism, but with significantly higher risks.

The efficacy of the vaccines wane over time. This is a known fact now. So how long do you have before the vaccine is totally ineffective and you catch Covid, and get hammered??? 4months? 6months? When should the vaccinated have that oh schit moment?

You have been given a false sense of hope.

There is mounting evidence that the vaccine weakens your immune system in fending off other less lethal viruses, and when hit with those, you get much sicker than you otherwise would have. 'Vaccine Enhanced Infection', that is what we are dealing with. That's the reality. And it's not even 'flu season' yet....
 

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why not use both?
Let me say this in the most explicit terms possible, I will NEVER take this vaccine in it's current form. Period, full stop. End of discussion. 25% or more of the American population have natural immunity. They don't need the vaccine either-and would be idiots to take it now! Biden can go pound sand - ain't gonna happen. If the governemnt keeps pushing, schit is about to get real.

Edit: It's starting....
Kentucky Health Care Workers Refused to Comply With Vaccine Mandate, Forced Hospital to Fire Them (VIDEOS)
 

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Hospital workers are on the front line... They have been in contact daily with this virus since it showed up 18 months ago. A large percentage of them HAVE natural immunity. They know this. I support their refusal to take the clot shot. They are being smart by FORCING the hospitals to fire them.

And IMO it is the hospitals that are being stupid! It's people with sterilizing natural immunity THAT YOU WANT TREATING PATIENTS!!!! Not people with the vaccine that can still shed the virus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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Good for these ladies, and wise of them to force the hand and not simply quit. By doing so, they retain all legal options.

This is not about politics though Creepy Joe is making it so. There are no long term data on this gene therapy, and what we were told about the shot is turning out to be BS. It does not prevent a person from getting the virus. It does not prevent a person from spreading it. And that is how it was and is being sold, even today. I still hear talking heads and useful idiots repeating this crap. In the extreme short term, it seems to lessen symptoms, but at what cost in the long term?

The answer is no one knows.

Spinner, you said you do not understand the logic of not getting the gene therapy. You may not agree with this logic, but if a person has a 99.9***% chance of survival if they get the virus and get the stupid do-nothing hospital care, but they can likely decrease symptoms and duration while increasing survival rates even more by taking a very safe and inexpensive drug, illogical people like me see a lot of logic in that.

I will take my chances with the known and skip a therapy with only a very short term track record which is getting worse by the day.

Either way, there are many other things that present a much higher risk of death for me from both disease standpoint as well as "reckless" behaviors like driving ATVs through low water crossings and winding trails in the dark to a duck blind. Given last year, we almost rolled the Duckcart into the river when we accidentally put the two obese guys on the back seats, I would put those odds of survival at about 10%.
 

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The irony here is that because the vaccinated can still become infected by the coronavirus, THEY are the ones putting selection pressure on the virus. THEY are the ones that will create the mutations and ADE with Covid. The more people that take the vaccine, the higher the likelihood an ADE mutation occurs.....
 

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Good for these ladies, and wise of them to force the hand and not simply quit. By doing so, they retain all legal options.
Not 2 employees Rat...350...

“The Medical Center in BG, KY was trying to quietly put over 350 out of a job without resignation or termination for not getting the vaccine,” Minnicks wrote, along with the hashtag “stop the mandate.”
 

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Discussion Starter · #732 ·
Currently it is the vaccinated that are getting hammered the hardest and filling up the hospitals.
That's simply not true at all.

The unvaccinated are nearly all of the hospitalized.

may not agree with this logic, but if a person has a 99.9***% chance of survival
It's not less than 1 in 1000 until a lot younger than you and maybe not even for the youngest.



And look at the hospitalization rates. It may not kill you but there is a hell of a chance that you will suffer really badly end up in the hospital. What do you think the long-term effects of that are? You're there because it's ravaging your lungs or something else in your body.

 

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Spinner, I know several (not a quadruple blind study with 100K participants) people in their 60s who got the virus and felt pretty bad. All got better immediately with HCQ or Ivermectin, and hospitals refuse to administer it.

Those numbers you show would probably be much lower if doctors and hospitals were not handcuffed. If someone I know gets infected, I will strongly recommend they take any other route than go to a hospital to be put on a ventilator prior to organ harvesting.
 

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I'll leave it to you to find current data. The CDC has intentionally left out the last 5 weeks of data. They can't hide it forever. I can assure you it is true from multiple first hand accounts in hospitals across the country. Nurses are reporting massive increases in vaccinated individuals in the hospitals.
 

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@SpinnerMan :

D.C. area Doctor Sept. 7th:
IM Doc
September 7, 2021 at 9:26 am
There are less than 25000 in the total area where I live. By their calculus, that would mean that all the physicians in our area would have seen about 5 breakthroughs in total since Delta arrived.

Well I worked this whole weekend.

11 on sat
9 on Sunday
12 yesterday

I had 54 total for the week last week. Things may be slowing down because I had 61 the week before. There are days with more than 10 repeatedly. And as time has progressed, these breakthroughs are not just head colds yet another lie. Serious lung changes and other covid issues are becoming increasingly common among them.

And the thing is everyone knows it. This has been in the newspaper here repeatedly. These pundits and the doctors supporting them are doing absolutely grave damage to the credibility of the media and medicine. This may be generational in its impact.

I just cannot believe what I am seeing happen.

Hey NYT WSJ and all others is the Pfizer and big Pharma advertising cash really worth your credibility? You are looking more like prostitutes every day. Average people are increasingly noticing it and tuning you out. Just look at the cratering numbers for CNN and MSNBC. This country desperately needs an independent media but instead we have you."
This is just one testimonial among many I have seen. As the vaccine efficacy wanes, more and more vaccinated individuals will have serious Covid complications. Or serious infection from other viruses that would normally be mundane.
 

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Discussion Starter · #736 ·
@SpinnerMan :

D.C. area Doctor Sept. 7th:


This is just one testimonial among many I have seen. As the vaccine efficacy wanes, more and more vaccinated individuals will have serious Covid complications. Or serious infection from other viruses that would normally be mundane.
My pulmonologist told me the exact opposite.

And what are they taking about? Positive tests? You know, the ones you criticize as giving too many false positives. Or deaths?

Unvaxxed are about 200 times more likely to die.

Unvaxxed are about 2-3 times more likely to test positive.

So if talking about positive tests, they are a moron.

My pulmonologist's experience is consistent with all the data. The people receiving medical treatment from her, nearly all and the sickest are the unvaxxed. She's treating the sickest.
 

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And what are they taking about? Positive tests? You know, the ones you criticize as giving too many false positives. Or deaths?
You missed the important part:
And as time has progressed, these breakthroughs are not just head colds yet another lie. Serious lung changes and other covid issues are becoming increasingly common among them.
 

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My pulmonologist told me the exact opposite.

And what are they taking about? Positive tests? You know, the ones you criticize as giving too many false positives. Or deaths?

Unvaxxed are about 200 times more likely to die.

Unvaxxed are about 2-3 times more likely to test positive.

So if talking about positive tests, they are a moron.

My pulmonologist's experience is consistent with all the data. The people receiving medical treatment from her, nearly all and the sickest are the unvaxxed. She's treating the sickest.
That may have been true with respect to the original SARS-COV2 virus, but it definitely is not true for some of the variants. The data is starting to show that vaccine efficacy is not as strong with the variants, and the vaccinated are getting severely hammered by these variants.
 

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Grotesque conflicts of interest on NIH ivermectin non-recommendation

However, the group responsible for the ivermectin non-recommendation has been discovered through a FOIA request to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. The FOIA response shows that the working group has nine members. Three members of the working group, Adaora Adimora, Roger Bedimo, and David V. Glidden, have disclosed a financial relationship with Merck. Merck has campaigned against the use of ivermectin in COVID-19. A fourth member, Susanna Naggie, had an extraordinary potential conflict of interest. She received a $155 million grant for the study of ivermectin following the non-recommendation. Funding for the study would have been difficult to justify if the drug was recommended for use in COVID-19. It is not known, however, if the panelist was aware of that opportunity or was planning to apply for that grant at the time of the deliberations on ivermectin.

The deception and secrecy surrounding the NIH ivermectin non-recommendation should have raised serious doubts about its integrity. The grotesque conflicts of interest of Panel members should make it clear that the NIH, as the FDA with its slandering of ivermectin as a “horse dewormer,” should not be taken seriously.
 

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Discussion Starter · #740 ·
That may have been true with respect to the original SARS-COV2 virus, but it definitely is not true for some of the variants. The data is starting to show that vaccine efficacy is not as strong with the variants, and the vaccinated are getting severely hammered by these variants.
NOT as strong, but still very strong.

But yes, maybe at some point we will need a different vaccine for a different variant. I just hope we don't waste so much time getting it to the public. We don't need to let 100's of thousands or more to die while we makes sure the vaccine doesn't hurt 100's of people. It's like war. If you sit around planning while the enemy is on the move, it's not going to go well. There is not time to screw around. We have the technology. No excuse for screwing around.

And yes, 100%, I think you should be allowed to wait for a decade to see what the long term effects are.
 
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