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Which you are right, is a COMPLETELY different debate. People like to conflate the two which I find disingenuous. I am not an antivaxer but I am an anti-mandater.
Claiming those with natural immunity MUST be vaccinated is complete lunacy and goes against everything we know about how our immune systems work. It definitely is not backed by science. Matter of fact-those with natural immunity are at a significantly INCREASED risk of adverse side effects or death FROM the vaccine. Absolute lunacy to force that risk onto people....and they gain NOTHING from that risk!
 

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Claiming those with natural immunity MUST be vaccinated is complete lunacy and goes against everything we know about how our immune systems work. It definitely is not backed by science. Matter of fact-those with natural immunity are at a significantly INCREASED risk of adverse side effects or death FROM the vaccine. Absolute lunacy to force that risk onto people....and they gain NOTHING from that risk!
Don't think anyone here is arguing that. That is clearly political, little to do with vaccine efficacy.
 

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Reuters:
Small study, but it could explain what is happening in the U.K., Scotland, and Israel with vaccinated filling up the hospitals.
COVID SCIENCE-Delta increases COVID-19 risks for pregnant women; Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine antibodies gone by 7 months for many

Six months after receiving the second dose of the two-shot vaccine from Pfizer Inc and BioNTech SE, many recipients no longer have vaccine-induced antibodies that can immediately neutralize worrisome variants of the coronavirus, a new study suggests. Researchers analyzed blood samples from 46 healthy, mostly young or middle-aged adults after receipt of the two doses and again six months after the second dose. "Our study shows vaccination with the Pfizer-BioNtech vaccine induces high levels of neutralizing antibodies against the original vaccine strain, but these levels drop by nearly 10-fold by seven months" after the initial dose, Bali Pulendran of Stanford University and Mehul Suthar of Emory University said by email. In roughly half of all subjects, neutralizing antibodies that can block infection against coronavirus variants such as Delta, Beta, and Mu were undetectable at six months after the second dose, their team reported on Thursday on bioRxiv Durability of immune responses to the BNT162b2 mRNA vaccine ahead of peer review. Neutralizing antibodies are not the immune system's only defense against the virus. Still, they "are critically important in protecting against SARS-CoV-2 infection," said Pulendran and Suthar. "These findings suggest that administering a booster dose at around 6 to 7 months following the initial immunization will likely enhance protection against SARS-CoV-2 and its variants."
 

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The vaccines do not work against contracting Covid.
The vaccines do not work at stopping transmissions.
Now data is showing the vaccines wear at a rate of 10 fold after 6 months and they do not stop hospitalizations or death.

5-6 months...maybe 7....that is all the protection you got from the insane risks of taking the jab.

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States - European Journal of Epidemiology

My prediction is that, with each successive jab, the time frame of adequate protection is shortened and the risks of adverse events increase dramatically.
 

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^^^^^^

“When somebody is naturally immune — like they got COVID — they probably have more antibodies against the virus…When you actually get the virus, you’re going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus…So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the [COVID] vaccination,” Nick Karl said.
Chris Croce, a Pfizer Senior Associate Scientist said: “You’re protected for longer” if you have natural COVID antibodies compared to the COVID vaccine.


“I work for an evil corporation…Our organization is run on COVID money,” Croce told a Project Veritas undercover journalist.


Rahul Khandke, a Pfizer Scientist said: “If you have [COVID] antibodies built up, you should be able to prove that you have those built up.”
Ooops....they went off script.
 

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Fauci is a Lying SOB driven by greed and does not give two f**ks about safety of the covid vaccines...in his own words....

Fauci Oct. 2019-
"In order to make the transition from getting out of the tried and true egg growing which we know gives us results that can be, you know, beneficial, I mean we've done well with that, to something that has to be much better, you have to prove that this works and then you have to go through all of the clinical trials: phase 1, phase 2, phase 3, and then show that this particular product is going to be good over a period of years. That alone, if it works perfectly, is going to take a decade."
Recently unearthed 2019 video on vaccine development...
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2021...-reveals-fauci-contradictions-mrna-vaccines-0

As of June, 2020, only 10 of over 133 candidates for COVID-19 vaccines had been approved for human trial, per the World Health Organization. Yet, by that time, the first vaccines administered under emergency use authorizations throughout the world had been in use for over 7 months. Despite the lack of adherence to the exhaustive regulatory process in place, Pfizer lauded the preliminary results of its initial studies as being tantamount to those vetted following traditional clinical trials. Michael Yeadon, former chief scientist and Vice President of Pfizer's Allergy and Respiratory Research Unit, and Dr. Wolfgang Wogard filed an emergency petition seeking to halt the process put in place to halt the ad hoc trials that the European Medicines Agency put in place to authorize the emergency use of Pfizer's and other's COVID-19 vaccines in the EU. A copy of the petition was also sent to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration at the time of its filing. The basis of the petition asserted that the trials in place which circumvented those such as the existing three-phase clinical trial process were "inadequate to accurately assess efficacy" of the mRNA vaccines. The basis for this assertion was predicated upon a multitude of issues, including the propensity for high cycle thresholds of RT-PCR tests being a diagnostic crux used in the study.

The petitioners went on to express their concerns for the potential crises which could emerge if the unproven vaccines were authorized for emergency use, including the risk of antibody dependent enhancement observed in conventional clinical trials for other mRNA vaccines, the high risk of allergic reactions to the polythylene glycol used by Pfizer and BioNTech to coat the lipid nanoparticles designed to deliver mRNA, and the impact that the antibodies produced by the response to vaccines could have in attacking the cells necessary for the formation of placenta cells in pregnant women. Yeadon and Wodarg's grounds for the petition convey the complexity of developing a novel vaccine and the important of adherence to existing clinical trial processes, a position tantamount to that which Fauci previously opined during the Milken Institute Future of Healthcare Summit in October of 2019. Yet, despite the extensive concerns that existed which were more relevant than every given the timing of their execution, adherence to existing regulations were entirely abandoned in order to approve these mRNA vaccines.
The discussion revolves around the idea of a universal flu vaccine. That idea was brought forth for the Covid vaccine.
 

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Here's part 1 of a documentary called Covidland.

 

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Discussion Starter · #972 ·
But at least they have natural immunity.

Doctors Begin to Crack Covid’s Mysterious Long-Term Effects

A recent survey of more than 4,000 Covid-19 patients found that about 10% of those age 18 to 49 still struggled with symptoms four weeks after becoming sick, that 4.5% of all ages had symptoms for more than eight weeks, and 2.3% had them for more than 12 weeks.
But 90% don't, so that's good, right?


What differentiates Covid-19 is the far-reaching nature of its effects. While it starts in the lungs, it often affects many other parts of the body, including the heart, kidneys and the digestive and nervous systems, doctors said.
Some symptoms could be collateral damage from the body’s immune response during the acute infection, researchers said. Some patients might harbor an undetectable reservoir of infectious virus or have bits of noninfectious virus in some cells that trigger an immune response
This experimental virus does so much we don't understand. It's scary.
 

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"Proceed With Caution At Your Own Peril" - Merck's COVID 'Super Drug' Poses Serious Health Risks, Scientists Warn

According to Barron's, some scientists who have studied the drug believe that its method of suppressing the virus could potentially run amok within the body.

Some scientists who have studied the drug warn, however, that the method it uses to kill the virus that causes Covid-19 carries potential dangers that could limit the drug’s usefulness.
Molnupiravir works by incorporating itself into the genetic material of the virus, and then causing a huge number of mutations as the virus replicates, effectively killing it. In some lab tests, the drug has also shown the ability to integrate into the genetic material of mammalian cells, causing mutations as those cells replicate.
If that were to happen in the cells of a patient being treated with molnupiravir, it could theoretically lead to cancer or birth defects.
In particular, Raymond Schinazi, a professor of pediatrics and the director of biochemical pharmacology at Emory who studied the drug while it was being developed, and published a number of papers on NHC, the compound that's the active ingredient in the drug. He published a paper that showed the drug can produce a reaction like the one described above, and insisted it shouldn't be given to young people - especially pregnant women - without more data.

Schinazi told Barron’s that he did not believe that molnupiravir should be given to pregnant women, or to young people of reproductive age, until more data is available. Merck’s trials of molnupiravir have excluded pregnant women; the scientists running the trial asked male participants to “abstain from heterosexual intercourse” while taking the drug, according to the federal government website that tracks clinical trials.
 

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Yet I know of several folks that are getting sick, some really bad sick after being infected with Covid previously. I know one family that had Covid, got vaccinated and then got really bad sick this go around. A few of them almost went to the hospital but got the infusion which helped tremendously.

This thing is crazy the way it just folks.
 

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This is not the first I've heard of people getting reinfected... Certainly natural immunity is not 100%, but it does offer more protection than the vaccine. I'm curious how people are being tested to show that they were in fact infected with Covid and not another respiratory virus. Far as I know the most accurate Covid test is the blood IgG/IgM antibody test which has a >97.3% accuracy. That is the one I took.
 

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I’ve wondered if many mild Covid positives were actual flu? I don’t think it disappeared just misdiagnosed.

I’ve not heard of anyone dying after a second diagnosis rather they were either much more sickle or a long hauler.
 

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I’ve wondered if many mild Covid positives were actual flu? I don’t think it disappeared just misdiagnosed.
Given the worthless tests they were using in the beginning, there is little doubt that "any illness" was documented as covid whether a mild flu virus or another corona virus, or a hangover for that matter. And tragically, many of those people were admitted and placed on covid wings of hospitals where they contract the real Wuhan.

The CDC and NIH have really screwed things up and have provided horrible guidance.
 

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I’ve wondered if many mild Covid positives were actual flu? I don’t think it disappeared just misdiagnosed.

I’ve not heard of anyone dying after a second diagnosis rather they were either much more sickle or a long hauler.
Given the worthless tests they were using in the beginning, there is little doubt that "any illness" was documented as covid whether a mild flu virus or another corona virus, or a hangover for that matter. And tragically, many of those people were admitted and placed on covid wings of hospitals where they contract the real Wuhan.

The CDC and NIH have really screwed things up and have provided horrible guidance.

To this point:
Oregon Senators Call For Investigation Into Alleged COVID-19 Statistical Manipulation

Oregon state Sens. Kim Thatcher and Dennis Linthicum, both Republicans, have petitioned Acting U.S. Attorney Scott E. Asphaug to launch a grand jury investigation into the measurement of COVID-19 statistics by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Thatcher and Linthicum submitted the petition in a letter (pdf) on Aug. 16 after gathering signatures from 1,718 Oregonians and 53,032 Americans.

In the petition, the senators expressed concerns over the measurement and reporting of COVID-19 vaccine adverse reactions including fatalities and injuries.
And...
“Additionally, we are profoundly concerned that the scientific literature continues to provide empirical evidence that safe and effective treatments and management strategies for COVID infections exist but are not being made available to Americans most in need,” continued the letter.
 
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