[Matt Jones]

Most of us have been talking about how ethanol would kill CRP for the past few years. Well, the talking is over...It's officially happened. I saw this map on nodak and it really hit me. After years of speculation, it is now reality.

Look at how much of the missouri couteau will be losing GREATER than 65% of their CRP! ALL OF IT!!!

The worst part is the areas losing the most acres coincidentally have the highest duck nesting densities (and best production) on the continent.

From DU;

New federal figures show almost 420,000 acres of North Dakota CRP were converted to cropland in 2007. That's more than 12 percent of all CRP acres in the state.

"If this trend holds for CRP contracts across the country, we won't have many acres of CRP left in a few years and wildlife populations will suffer serious declines," said Scott McLeod, Farm Bill specialist with DU's Great Plains Regional Office.

US Department of Agriculture's Farm Service Agency statistics compiled by the North Dakota Game and Fish Department shows 16 North Dakota counties have CRP losses greater than 15 percent. Stutsman County had the highest loss with 65.3 square miles.

That last part is insane! 65 square miles of CRP lost in the Jamestown area alone!

We all need to enjoy these next couple falls as much as possible (and cherish the memories of the last several) because we are really going to be hurting for birds. CRP acres in the US contribute to an additional 2 million ducks in the fall flight each year.

The loss of CRP is essentially going to create a perpetual drought on the prairies. :sad:

 

[taddy1340]

Thanks for posting Matt...it is truly disheartening. A major loss for ducks, pheasant, deer, and many more....

 

[hillman raider]

:dito: :no: :no: :no: :no:

 

[portahunter]

It's definately sad to see this happening. :thumbsdown:

 

[don taylor]

Here we are again as sportsman way ahead of the curve. We know more about the enviroment than the tree hugging enviromentalist crowd. By saving the enviroment from evil oil exploration and pushing corn they are doing more damage than the extraction would. Save polar bears, screw the ducks. To quote to great minds:

Liberalism is a mental disorder
-Michael Savage

Liberalism enacts the exact opposite of its stated intent.
-Jim Quinn

 

[Matt Jones]

Leberalism? Come on don! Ethanol has been pushed by both sides of the aisle. Don't even try to make this a partisan issue.

It's sad, but the universal endorsement of ethanol by both the Democrats and the Republicans is one of the very few things the two parties have simultaneously endorsed.

 

[mauser1959]

Ok , so I am the new kid on the block, but here are my ideas. First of all CRP was and is nothing more than farmer welfare. Our biggest CRP reciever in this county got over a million dollars last year from ground that he could not have put into production on a normal year due to field erosion. It will also be noted that most farmers are republicans, and would kick and scream if you took away their farm subsidies; everything from pasture fertilization money to CRP. I happen to be a delegate to Missouri's Republican 9th district, and would have been a delegate to our states convention if I had so chosen; however that does not change the facts, in this area most of the farmer welfare handed out goes to republican farmers. I believe that if you were to look across the board most farmers would turn out to be republicans as farmers tend to be more conservative... and most farmers get subsidies that are nothing more than welfare. It is time to end all farm support programs and make farms like any other business and make them stand on their own merit. The basic tenet of taking money from one group and giving it to another is nothing more than socialism; so by proxy most farmers would have to be classified as socialist; because damn few of them are willing to give up their government hand outs.

One of my workers made enough money on his CRP ground and pasture fertilization program to pay for most of his farm every year... and he was still running stock on the pastures and in bad years got to take hay off of his CRP ground for a small penalty.

 

[jrockncash]

Wow you and Don will be best friends. Its frustrating that people cant see the big picture. I also would hope that many on here wont agree with you but hey you never know. CRP is one of the best things to EVER happen to ducks and geese and other wildlife. The merits of this program to hunters of which this forum is based on are immense.

Those gov subsidies you talk about keep small time farmers in buisness. You obivously have no clue how hard it is for a small family farmer to stay in buisness when Multi National Conglomerates are stealing Century farms out from under the owners left and right. Big buisness is as bad as Big Gov. Most farmers are Republican, that may be true but most people dont enjoy being lopped into one mass stereotype and I would think that farmers would be one.

 

[blazer68]

WHAT THE HELL ARE WE GONNA DO

 

[CLUTCHfan]

I don't see the CRP program as a type of welfare, because the CRP program is getting something for the money it spends, not so with welfare. From my understanding, the Government is leasing habitat. So the government actually does receive a service or product, so to speak, for it's money. Welfare just gives money to people for pooping out more kids and doesn't really get a return of any sort from the money spent.

 

[jrockncash]

What about the benefit of degenerate kids grown up on welfare?

Good point clutch

 

[Ringneck]

Farmer Welfare.......Holy crap I've heard it all now. Personally that statement really bothers me but I will keep those thoughts to myself. I guess the farmer is an easy target these days for some reason. He gets some agricultural subsidies (he also works his a** off) your local crack dealer and his family of kids also get agricultural subsidies in the form of food stamps, WIC, and welfare ...that's right...it's all under the umbrella of the Dept. of Agriculture. I know where my food and clothes come from...and it's not the slobs you see on the street corners or wondering through Wal-Mart in the middle of the day. If my farmers can apply for a program to keep them going year to year than I will gladly support it.. they do a hell of alot more this country than the majority of individuals pulling money from the Dept of Agriculture. You want to let their business fail due to a dip in commodity prices go ahead...just don't complain when you pay $$$$ for your food. These are not businesses that can fail then just start up again when the market is better. I guess to some it's an even wash out....pay the farmer subsidies to keep us in cheap food or not pay subsidies and pay him welfare when he's out of work. Then we all suffer with higher priced food and clothes. I'm sure I'll draw some fire for my views on this but you guys that want to continually bash farmers really bother me. A farmer being a socialist.. :huh: ...where do you live. I'm guessing it's not in a farming community and if it is I'm even more confused.

As far as you guys loosing CRP acres to corn.... that land belongs to the farmer and it is HIS choice to remove it if he desires (for corn) or leave it in for the CRP write off. Given time it MAY go back to CRP. It all depends on commodity prices. Fetilizer costs will be the limiting factor in corn acreage. I have farmers that have already quit growing corn (even with it being $5.00/bushel) because of increased fertilizer and irrigation costs.

My apologies ahead of time if I offend anyone but farmer bashing hits close to home in this house.

 

[shootnmiss09]

:no:

 

[CCducker]

:lame:

 

[greenster]

Why don't people e-mail there Representatives in Washington? :no:

I'm only one man... I tried but I knew this day would come, due to the dumb asses in this country.

mauser1959
so your one of the many people to accuse for this then?

How is not okay for farmers who work all day all there lives to RUN THIS COUNTRY and not to get help when needed? But give welfare to the LAZY people of this country with 5 kids and no job? Does it not make more since to you to help out those working with welfare and food stamps over those who are not, except the disabled ones? I just doesn't make since to me why Minorities, Jobless, Lazy but healthy individuals should be able to get money that a percentage of working Americans don't make in a month.

This is a environmental issue, and frankly you have your issues mixed up. the working man is what runs this country... Not you, The government, military (god bless) or a any other group. Its the working individual the rest are just imitators.

 

[don taylor]

Who said anything about democrats or republicans? I am not a republican and I'm even further from a democrat. We are surrounded by elected idiots that don't listen to us. We are just normal Americans that don't fall into a special small interest group. What group benefits most from this loss of CRP? How many of us see a problem with mixing the food and fuel markets? We figure out how to make fuel from food and without any forethought they start. Everyone wants the quick fix for age old questions. Its all about the NOW and instant gratification. We have taken it so far that if you can't solve a problem immedietly, your a failure. Same goes for global warming and the host of other problems we face. Rushing to judgement has become the M.O. What in the hell are we going to do when we ruin the soil? At what point will we limit our dependency?

 

[mauser1959]

First of all if you will look up distric 9 in Missouri you will find that I live in the middle of the corn belt and in a major hog producing area. I also live about 60 miles from Pioneer seed corns main hybrid corn fields .I for one do not believe that any subsidy should be handed out that was not earned ie paid into. I have worked in one form or another of Agro business most of my life; and have seen the rampant abuses of the system. I have lived on farms most of my life , though at the present I only live on a small acreage (5) not the section of ground we owned in OK. SO if I ruffled a few feathers with the truth... that bothers me not in the least: I know that I do not appreciate when SPF and its subsidiaries and other large corporate farms in my area receive tons of USDA cash for jobs that would be done otherwise. It is time to make the wasteful farmers either become streamlined or get out of business. It is of interest that the first farm programs were put in place by FDR ( using the interstate commerce clause of the US Constitution) and most continue till this day. Any other business besides farming where the most pathetic business practices were used would be let go bankrupt. And if any of you are wondering how a person can get over the $50,000.00 supposed cap on CRP it is called christmas Treeing. And another small issue since your all so sensitive to the "plight" of the farmer... tell me what percentage of money from the USDA goes to what percentage of farmers; you will find that ADM, John Hancock, Rosehill Farms , Contential Grain, and a few others are the biggest recipients.

Yes , I live in a big agricultural area , where every thing is either green or wrong (if you live in an agricultural area you understand the significance of that remark). There have been to many federal subsidies given out to agro-businesses, and it needs to stop. This will not be the last time that I have this debate , nor has it been the first; what can I say most of my family are farmers, with multiple of sections of ground. Now on the other hand if you wish to prove my statements wrong , please consult your US Constitution and give me a reason that the federal government is involved with agricultural business at all. What is really sad is , I know of a number of farms that every year have to buy new green machines to keep up their farm subsidies... and big greens are getting so computer controlled the the old farmers have to go to classes to understand them. And yes we also have big JD plant close to me here also.

And if you do not believe that your US Constitution is right as well as those words of our founding fathers , at least have the turkey fries to say so. I stand by my words.

I for one started cutting calves at about age 8 and docking sheep in the same year. I know the "plight" of the farmer and realize first hand that a good share of it is due to abuse in one form or another. Take for instance , one of my close relatives sold some first bottom ground on the Mississippi river basin; back in the 1980s , got over $3000 per/acre... just how many bushels of beans or corn do you need to keep that acreage viable at that price; Bear in mind that in this area it was costing at that time $120.00 per acre to put in corn and about 3/4 of that to put in beans. A few years later the price of beans and corn dropped , so why should we continue to subsidize the farmer who bought the land... it was a risky business move in the first place. Farmers who cry to me get no pity, I have been there done that. It is funny in a way , but you know there is a couple of jokes around here. one goes , you know how to make a rich man poor ... let him farm for a few years. The other goes, you know what the worst form of child abuse is ... giving the kid the family farm.

So I probably do not know alot about farming and its practices, I just live in an area of 150-180 bushel corn and 45-75 bushel beans. Or maybe I should say that I do not know of any other business that is so subsidized , from the first seed in the ground until the price supports kick in at harvest and god forbid if there is a drought or any other "disaster" , if any other kind of business besides a wall street banker gets into debt no government comes to give them a hand out. I have to sign off now , I think I hear a heifer needing a calf pulled.

 

[captainduckhead]

To Ringneck: Thank you, well said.

To Don Taylor: If you're not a Republican you are a Democrat, even if you call yourself an independant, or whatever...you're closer to a Democrat, than anything else.

 

[Ringneck]

What ruffled feathers was one statement "Farmer Welfare". It appears that you where aiming more for big corporate farms in your recent post. In that case I could not agree more..there are major abuses of many farm subsidy programs as well as most other government programs. I deal will small growers in this area...farms range from 250 - 1500 acres with 3000 being a very large grower. CRP has never been a major program here as it was when I worked in Texas but other NRC equip programs help out alot. Primarily cost share projects on irrigation ponds, converting to strip till and planting winter cover crops. All of these practices are beneficial to the environment and help the small farmer. Handouts...if you had to label it then I guess you could call it that but long term benefits help growers be more efficient in their practice so all benefit from it. Since it is tax dollars that fund this I would say farmers are paying into the system through taxes so they are doing there part there. Since it sounds like you know the business then you are also aware of check-off programs but there is no need to get into that here.

I am not in a grain area..cotton and peanuts...and yes government involvement in both have screwed it up royally. Most recently the government bought out quota on peanuts it had alotted in the 40-50's with guarenteed prices. Great no more government money going out...I watched some farms go out of business because they could not farm efficiently enough to grow the crop at a cheaper price. SHould they have stayed in business..no..but it was very painful to watch.

We are in two different areas of the country and you are seeing abuse on a very large scale and benefits not going where they were intended to go. It was never set up to keep you in business..just to help out a little when markets slide or as in the CRP issue to remove poor to marginal land form the crop rotation (that is a good program in my book) but it has been abused by some crooks that found loopholes and etc. Unfortunately most all government programs set up for help are abused. As far as the government being too involved with agri-business ..I AGREE..they are also way too involved with our personal lives and you are correct in that it was not set that way by out founding fathers. But that is a whole other issue and there's not enough time to flesh that out.

Going out of town..I'll check back in a week.