[miagron]

I have a year and a half old Lab Ret. that is vcery obedient and retrieves very well until it comes to the field. This weekend was his first goose hunt and he went to the birds, grabbed at them with a soft mouth but would not bring them back in. He did everything else correctly, but did not have the strong desire to lift the giant Canadian. We have done a lot of work with heavy retreiving dummys and such. He is a great dog, but I need help to get teh picture.

Any help would be appreciatted.

 

[98ramtough]

Is the dog force fetched?

Take that goose home and play fetch with it. Then save the wings off the goose and wrap up a pillow in ducktape and tape the wings on it. Play fetch with that for a while, he will come around.

 

[Mrs. Bear Creek]

In my opinion I would just strictly inforce the come command... This should be your best bet and if that does not work I would try and E-collar with out the bird for the come command. If you do this with the bird the dog might relate the stimulation from the E-collar to the bird and quit fetching all together for a while.

Good Luck........Rondi

 

[SteveInTN]

This is why the force fetch is still around and considered by many to be not just a part, but one of the basic tenants of retriever training. Sure, you can have a dog that doesn't need it, but for circumstances like you are describing, it is definately something that will correct this.

It isn't a problem with understanding the HERE/COME command. If the dog doesn't pick up the bird yet he stills returns to his master then he IS obeying. You can't say, "No, I meant for you to return to me with the bird" because the dog hasn't been taught that the retrieve is mandatory.

If you have taught the dog HOLD, then you could reasonably tell them to hold it if he ever got it in his mouth. But what command do you have for actually picking it up? Force Fetch will give you the FETCH, HOLD, and GIVE commands.

Others can chime in with how to teach those without the force fetch, but the force fetch is a solution.

:thumbsup:

 

[phillipstd]

totaly agree ff, If I told my dog to fetch a deers leg, then told him to heel he'd try to pull the damn thing along side, any dog can lift up a canadian, even if he were real small he could drag it, reinforce come right away too I'd throw the dead ones with a check cord on him at the least, makem do it and makem like it.

 

[98ramtough]

SteveInTn-- Very well put. If a dog brings the bird out of the water and drops it anywhere-- they did what they were taught. The only way to get the dog to handle while the bird is still in thier mouth is to force fetch them.

 

[huntforfood]

as soon as he picks the bird up start coaxing him praise him good boy... good dog... if you make it sound like it is a good thing him might bring hte birds in

good luck

 

[kaiser45]

Hi all,
I am trying to help my brother out with his golden ret. with getting him to pick the ducks up. He swims to them puts them in his mouth then spits them out like skoal and comes back! He won't bring them back. i told him he needs to force fetch him. i know of one way, the thumbnail in the ear trick, but that isn't working and i dont want to rib the dang ear off! So does anyone else have any suggestions on HOW to FORCE FETCH?
Thanks a bunch and good luck to all this year!
Geaux Tigers
kaiser45

 

[mfetter]

You must really have a stubborn dog if the ear pinch isnt working. There is also the toe pull, but I havent done so I am sure that there is some one else that can explain it better than I could. If that doesnt work there are some extremes that you can go to, but only as a last resort. I would suggest waiting to see what others have to say and if none of those work PM me and I will go through a couple more things with you.

 

[SteveInTN]

Now before I suggest something it is paramount that you understand what you are doing. Even though the process is called FORCE fetch you don't need to get brutal with the dog. The trick is to find SOMETHING that is humane yet causes the dog enough discomfort that he will oblige. Remember, the trick is to teach the dog how to handle pressure (a.k.a. pain or discomfort). They MUST understand that YOU are in control of turning it on and THEY are in control of turning it off.

Different dogs react to different forms of pressure. Obviously, if the dog has a high tolerance for pain then an ear pinch might not work. My dog was the same way. Either my nails weren't long enough or it just didn't bother him. I put a 5/16" bolt through one of the holes in his training collar so that the threads of the bolt stick out and the head is against his neck (makes him look like a Frankenstien dog). I positioned the bolt so that it protruded from his collar at a point where I could put his ear on it. So instead of relying on my thumbnail, I used the end of the thread end of the bolt. I just put his ear on it and pressed down with my thumb. He never flinched on the ear pinch with my thumbnail, but he sure didn't like that bolt! Worked like a charm.

If the dog has been Collar Conditioned, you can also use the e-collar to force fetch a dog. After my dog completed the force fetch with the ear pressure I put him back through it with the e-collar. It went very quickly, and was more of a reinforcement of the original. Say fetch, apply constant pressure with the collar, as soon as the dog take the force fetch item in his mouth, release the button. Pressure on, pressure off.

Please heed my original advice. Don't roll up your sleeves and 'beat' the dog through the Force Fetch. Find something that is not brutal that the dog reacts to as a form of pressure and use that. THIS is how the Force Fetch gets a bad name and how it can RUIN a dog. Be careful, patient, and think it through. You want a good retriever, don't lose your patience and mess up at this point. You are so close.

 

[yellowlab]

is there an age that si to old to force fecth a dog...??

 

[mfetter]

steve said it perfect--I assumed that you already knew what you were doing as far as force fetch goes. Unless the dog is older than 9 I would think that you would be fine. However the dog can be force fetched to young with bad effects.

 

[yellowlab]

thanks mfetter...
ok not to sound doub but i have my frist lab now and as stated in post ducks but not geese i have alittle problem ...

ok my yellow lab has never had any trouble retiving at all last seson she was mostly used for feild goose hunting and never had a problem retiveing geese..... this season i have stated useing her for both a water duck hunter as well as a feild goose hunter when the other day while we were in our duck blind and had a single goose fly by so i got on my honker, brought it in and droped it...she had already retived close to 2 limits of ducks that day with no problem at all... but when she swam out to the goose she swam up to it and just turned right around and came back to the blind ... i have no idea what to do... she will swim out to every one smell it and then turn right around and come back ... the other day i even took a shot goose and tryed getting her to retive it like a bumper... same thing ran right up to it , turned around and came back... i am lost... she was making retives on 20 lb geese when she was 5 mouths old off the ground and water and all of a sudden this .... plz help

thanks to all who help
yellow

do you guys think force feching would be the way to fix it or jsut a lot of work wiht some goose wings then maybe lessers and then move up from there... my lab is very well behaved and will listen to any command you put out there... she is a really good retiver she jsut recently got thsi problem ... but when duck hunting dosen't show the lest bit of not wanted to retieve birds... i am really confused here and noticed this line was getting mroe action than mine so i though i would put it out there...

if you guys think that force feching is the way to go ... could someone go over how to(exactly)... i am 17 and this is my frist lab and really don't want to mess somethign up.. and although i think i know how ... i really don;t know if it do for sure

thanks a lot in advance
yellow

 

[SteveInTN]

The Force Fetch isn't the cure all for everything. But when it comes to the problem you are describing, it WILL give you the tools to fix the problem. The entire process is very involved and structured. You DO NOT want to take advice from people via the internet in order to learn how to do it. It isn't rocket science, and it is something that a 17 year old can pull off. But you must understand the reasoning and mechanics of the process. I advise you to get a video from a well known retriever trainer, such as Mike Lardy or the Smartwork program. They will take you through the process step-by-step, explaining the why and how of the process.

Just so that it isn't some big mystery to you. The process is all about turning the retrieve into a command. It becomes something the dog MUST do versus being something that they WANT to do. I'm still trying to convince my lab to fetch my wife's lap dog, some day he will do it!

:mrgreen:

The force fetch also breaks the retrieve down into the atomic (individual) operations the dog does during the retrieve and turns each into a command. He'll learn FETCH, which means to go and pick something up with his mouth. He'll learn HOLD, which means he should keep it in his mouth until instructed to do otherwise. He'll also learn GIVE, which means he can release what he is holding in his mouth.

It is done by applying pressure (pain or discomfort), as you probably guessed from the above posts. In order to truly FORCE fetch a dog you MUST use pressure, otherwise you are just teaching the dog some new commands, which he might think are optional. The result would be him balking on retrieves, just like he is doing now. The important thing is to study the process, ask questions and seek advice BEFORE you start. Devise a plan, follow each step, and FOLLOW THROUGH with applying an adequate amount of pressure in order to constitute being FORCE fetched. In other words, make sure that the dog knows you are serious. If you tell him to fetch something, it should be automatic, not optional.

Get a video, watch about 20 times, ask questions, try to find a pro close to you that might show you how to do it. It can be emotionally tough, but it is well worth it. One of the best tools a guy training his own dog can employ.

An INTENTIONAL by-product of the modern method of force fetching a dog is that it teaches them how to handle pressure. They learn that the when the trainer inflicts pressure, they (the dog) has the power to turn it off by obeying the command. You should notice a definate 'spring' in the dogs step after the force fetch is 100% complete.

I hope this wasn't too confusing, but just confusing enough to convince you to study how to do it.

:thumbsup: