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Infinite return as long as the checks keep showing up....

Wow that’s odd. Kind of like a dividend? Holy cow! It’s like any other equity investment! Also let’s go ahead and discuss the fact thag has a much larger tax burden than a 401k, traditional or not…

And no, not infinite. There’s a clear way to calculate the present value of that.

Again still not any substance. You are using someone else’s tupperware patent/ IP.

What’s your magic sauce the world just doesn’t know? Real substance this time.

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Yet never chose to clarify till now…. Odd how that works.


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Well, got a lot on my mind right now with a direct hit from hurricane Ida. Sorry for the oversight. Been a chaotic past 10 days, 8 days without power. I took the dog and went to the firehouse, I stayed in the Public Service Center building next door where at least there was A/C for a good nights sleep. Volunteered to cook for the 4 fire stations in town-60 guys- breakfast and supper, ate leftovers for lunch. Will head down to Venice next week sometime to do an assessment on our houseboat. She took a beating, but still floating. Front deck got caught up on some pilings 8' above the water so it's gonna be tricky cutting her loose. will have to secure the houseboat to pilings first to prevent kickback when she drops, then cut the deck and allow the houseboat to drop to the water. I have pics. if I can figure out how to post them on the new software.
Venice had way more damage from Katrina than Ida, but the place is still a mess. Had 120mph. gusts at the coast guard station in Venice, 96mph sustained.

Posting on this site has been a mental escape for me since the storm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
What’s your magic sauce the world just doesn’t know? Real substance this time.
If you are asking for my investment strategy-you can forget it. That is something I will never share on this forum.
 

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Depends on the brokerage. Management fees are annual, and the losses compounded.
What was the 1% claim by Benna because it makes a massive difference.

The example YOU provided was explicitly on contributions. This makes a massive difference.

For me right now, my wife and I are putting in about $2,500/yr for every $100,000 in assets we have.
1% of contributions (your example in the reference) would be fees of $25/yr per $100k. For 1%/yr of assets, would be $1,000/yr per $100k.

So is Benna talking about $25 or $1,000 if I were average? Huge difference.

The original reference you provided was for the $25, but the math you are doing is for the $1,000. Huge difference.

As I said, my actual numbers are around $90/yr per $100k. That would be 3.6% of contributions, but that's because my contributions are so small compared to my assets so if you divide the small expense ratio of my funds by 2.5%, they get 40x bigger, but it is a meaningless number.

Do you know which number Benna was talking about because it makes a huge difference. The 1% of assets makes no sense. A max for small accounts in small plans, maybe, but nationwide average. No way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
What was the 1% claim by Benna because it makes a massive difference.

The example YOU provided was explicitly on contributions. This makes a massive difference.

For me right now, my wife and I are putting in about $2,500/yr for every $100,000 in assets we have.
1% of contributions (your example in the reference) would be fees of $25/yr per $100k. For 1%/yr of assets, would be $1,000/yr per $100k.

So is Benna talking about $25 or $1,000 if I were average? Huge difference.

The original reference you provided was for the $25, but the math you are doing is for the $1,000. Huge difference.

As I said, my actual numbers are around $90/yr per $100k. That would be 3.6% of contributions, but that's because my contributions are so small compared to my assets so if you divide the small expense ratio of my funds by 2.5%, they get 40x bigger, but it is a meaningless number.

Do you know which number Benna was talking about because it makes a huge difference. The 1% of assets makes no sense. A max for small accounts in small plans, maybe, but nationwide average. No way.
It is my understanding that Benna was referring to managed plans where the fees are annual and on total assets, not purchases.
 

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It is my understanding that Benna was referring to managed plans where the fees are annual and on total assets, not purchases.
Everyday 401(k) | Chase for Business | Chase.com

401(k) plans start as low as
$75 per month + $5 per participant per month
For 100 employees, that would be $69/yr per employee. Total cost of $6,900. To be 1%, that is $6,900 in assets per person.

These things just do not cost 1% of assets per year. 1% if contributions, but that's really a meaningless ratio. It's the fraction of assets, because that's the number that compounds.

1.08 compounded fir 35 years is 14.785. Even with a .2%, your dollar grows to 13.857. That's just 7% for 35 years for what is probably a high expense ratio if you pay attention.

He cannot be talking average for assets. Fees are simply not that high. There's a ton of competition.

Now there are actively managed funds that are above 1% of assets that promise to beat the market. They almost never do. For an average of 8% return, they have to do 25% better EVERY SINGLE YEAR just to break even. Almost zero achieve that year after year.

Index funds on the other hand are as low as .02%, but they can be up around .2%. The higher cost for something like a target date retirement fund may be worth it because it adjusts your assets as you age for higher risk, higher return to less risk, less volatility. I like these as part of your assets when you are closer to retirement, but with all of them, understand what they do and what they cost.

But most important, save early. You can save $1 in your 20's or $10 in your 50's to have what you need in retirement.
 

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For me, a non-active investor, paying a management fee is well worth it. I pay my Edward Jones advisor .09% annually on the total value of my portfolio and then whatever the individual funds charge which range, and I depend upon his advice to pick low fee funds that perform well.

I am sure I could save management fees by focusing on ETFs or building a "Rat Creek Fund" by picking a host of individual stocks to build out a diversified portfolio that meets my risk tolerance, but it is not worth it to me. My Jones guy lives this stuff and has the benefit of others who also live it. My plate is overfull with other things.

That being said, I know several people who have done what Inda is describing. A friend of a friend created some piece of software that lives inside other software, and his licensing royalty is massive. My friend said the guy just laughs that the code he created just pour money into his bank account each month. I drive by his multimillion dollar house. He never invites me in.

Another guy I went to high school with sold his software company to Informix which was later bought by IBM. He continues to receive sufficient compensation that he spends his time creating other things that he then licenses to mass marketers. One of this other tech inventions is a software program that coordinates music and lights (think giant Christmas light displays or Sports stadiums).

I have never come up with anything that creative and lack the technical skills, so I will stay the course with the very boring approach.
 

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For me, a non-active investor, paying a management fee is well worth it. I pay my Edward Jones advisor .09% annually on the total value of my portfolio and then whatever the individual funds charge which range, and I depend upon his advice to pick low fee funds that perform well.

I am sure I could save management fees by focusing on ETFs or building a "Rat Creek Fund" by picking a host of individual stocks to build out a diversified portfolio that meets my risk tolerance, but it is not worth it to me. My Jones guy lives this stuff and has the benefit of others who also live it. My plate is overfull with other things.

That being said, I know several people who have done what Inda is describing. A friend of a friend created some piece of software that lives inside other software, and his licensing royalty is massive. My friend said the guy just laughs that the code he created just pour money into his bank account each month. I drive by his multimillion dollar house. He never invites me in.

Another guy I went to high school with sold his software company to Informix which was later bought by IBM. He continues to receive sufficient compensation that he spends his time creating other things that he then licenses to mass marketers. One of this other tech inventions is a software program that coordinates music and lights (think giant Christmas light displays or Sports stadiums).

I have never come up with anything that creative and lack the technical skills, so I will stay the course with the very boring approach.
My CC Forum stock tip of the day: Ford is trading at 12ish bucks today.

Toyota, Honda Oppose U.S. House Electric Vehicle Tax Plan, Say It Is 'Unfair'
2:09 pm ET September 12, 2021 (Benzinga) Print
Toyota Motor Corp (NYSE: TM) and Honda Motor Co (OTC: HNDAF) have vehemently opposed the proposal to give union-made electric vehicles in the U.S. an additional $4,500 tax incentive.


What Happened: The bill, proposed by the Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives, is set to be voted on Tuesday by the Democratic-led House Ways and Means Committee.


The bill, which is part of the $3.5 trillion spending proposal, would benefit Detroit's Big Three automakers, which have union-represented auto plants, according to Reuters.


Japan's largest automaker Toyota says the proposed plan discriminates "against American autoworkers based on their choice not to unionize." Toyota added that it will also "fight to focus taxpayer dollars on making all electrified vehicles accessible for American consumers who can't afford high-priced cars and trucks."
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
Here is my Stock tip for the day....don't depend on the stock market for your retirement.
 

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Here is my Stock tip for the day....don't depend on the stock market for your retirement.
Got the lottery for that. I'm still probably gonna throw a few bucks at Ford tomorrow. That or a BIOTECH thing I've been eyeballing.
 

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Got the lottery for that. I'm still probably gonna throw a few bucks at Ford tomorrow. That or a BIOTECH thing I've been eyeballing.
Social Security will take care of you.

Maybe just get a government pension in a liberal state.

But ownership in many business. Don't do that. That's crazy.
 

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Social Security will take care of you.

Maybe just get a government pension in a liberal state.

But ownership in many business. Don't do that. That's crazy.
lol...I should invest tin foil like it's a precious metal. I do think land speculation is cool though. Probably shoulda thought about that 30 years ago.
 

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So part of the stupid $3.5 trillion is to put American workers (non-union) out of work. The ruling class are truly evil people, taking bribes from unions and using the gubment to do the dirty work. Almost 100% of "Japanese" cars are built in America by Americans in good paying jobs. Detroit's issue is they are hopelessly boldened to corrupt unions who put out a subpar product, thus they need corrupt politicians to keep them in the game.

With corrupt democrats, it is NEVER about a level playing field.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
But ownership in many business. Don't do that. That's crazy.
Ownership of or in a business directly ....sure. But betting your retirement on the stock market is risky. And the two are not the same, not even remotely.
 

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Ownership of or in a business directly ....sure. But betting your retirement on the stock market is risky. And the two are not the same, not even remotely.
How so?



It has a great track record for centuries.

Trying to TIME the market is dangerous. Relying on the market to accumulate wealth for retirement is as close to a sure thing as you will get. Especially, when you factor in the benefits of dollar cost averaging and that your time horizon is a lot more than 20 years, so it brings up the lows and down the highs. Collectively business earn money over the long term. Individual businesses, you don't know. But all businesses collectively, long-term, the results are something you can count on for your retirement.

And yes owning shares in a business is the exact same as owning the business directly as a minority owner.

It's not the same a running a business.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Can you PERSONALLY increase sales of a business when you buy a stock? No. Except anecdotally by word of mouth, which won't affect the overall sales much at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Can you PERSONALLY change the pricing of products in said business when you buy a stock? NO.
 
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