Can someone tell me exactly what force fetching is?
new_guy
force fetching is the process through which the dog is conditioned to pick up and hold an object (i.e. a bumper or dead bird) and remain holdinig it until instructed otherwise. It is a great tool for teaching a retriever.
there are several guides you can use to walk you through forcec fetch training. I used the Richard Wolter's "Water Dog" DVD, though as I mentioned there is a large selection. From my understanding they all come to a very similar final result through different methods.
Good Luck!
there are several guides you can use to walk you through forcec fetch training. I used the Richard Wolter's "Water Dog" DVD, though as I mentioned there is a large selection. From my understanding they all come to a very similar final result through different methods.
Good Luck!
This is very long, but it is good. A Pro emailed it to me about 5 months ago. If this takes up to much room and you guys want me to get rid of it, Please tell me and I will. :thumbsup:
I forgot, I would have credit the author and the book this was printed in, but I have no clue, and neither did the pro that sent it to me. If anyone recognizes this, please let me know. thanks.
Chapter 10 - The Force Fetch
By this time you should have established a strong control factor with your dog. This means, your dog should understand that "Heel" means to walk at your side (normally your left, but whatever side you choose), and to "Sit" immediately when you stop. They should also understand whatever command you use directing them to come to you. We use the command "Here", but use what you feel most comfortable with. Just make sure your commands are simple, clear, and are not easily confused with other commands you may use now or in the future. Force fetching is the process by which a dog is trained to pick up an object on command. It is possible to hunt with a dog who is not force fetched, but any training or corrections done on a dog not properly forced may and usually does result in the dog's refusal to retrieve. This can be entirely avoided by having a dog that does not question the command to retrieve.
Force fetching is usually started at six to eight months, after the adult teeth are in completely. There is often pain and discomfort during the transition from baby teeth to adult, and this should not be allowed to interfere with any force training. Up to this point, your dog should have been enthusiastically encouraged to deliver to hand, but you have had no real means to correct any refusal to carry and deliver. After the completion of force fetch, your dog will be far more inclined to deliver to hand, and you will definitely have the means to correct him for dropping birds. A more significant reason exists for force fetching a dog. Force fetch teaches your dog to retrieve under pressure, and to learn to accept and deal with that pressure. This makes the force fetch the foundation for most modern training programs that require a dog to run blinds and handle.
A. Tools Required for Exercises
You will need the following equipment to carry out the force fetch:
• Choke Chain that fits the dog's neck loosely, but not so loose that it can easily be pulled over the head.
• 20 foot lead, preferably nylon so that it will not wear or break with use.
• A 'dummy' electric collar, if you plan on using that down the line, or a wide nylon or leather collar that can fit firmly around your dog's neck, just behind the ears.
• Plastic knobby training dummies, not the 3 inch wide, but the narrower version.
• An empty shotgun shell or other something very similar. You will see the application shortly.
B. The First Step in Force Fetch, the "Hold"
You may have heard or read about the use of a table in the force fetch program. The table does prevent wear on your back, with all the bending over, but it is not necessary, nor is it useful for very long. Most professional trainers these days, get past the 'bending over' part in short order, and find the use of a table to elevate the dog unnecessary. The force fetch begins with the idea of 'holding' on to the bumper until told to release, or "Drop". It would be difficult to teach a dog to pick up something if you have not first taught them not to spit it out as soon as they pick it up.
Begin by placing the bumper in your dog's mouth as he or she sits by your side. You may have to pry their mouth open to put the bumper in. Do not expect your dog to reach for it or even willingly accept the bumper. Use the lead attached to the choke collar, or the dummy collar to prevent your dog from moving away from your side. Say "Hold" when you get the bumper in the dog's mouth, and encourage the hold response with calm but positive praise.
At first, you may have to literally hold the bumper in the mouth in order to get the 'hold' response that you can praise. Some dogs will put up a real battle at this point. Do not let that dissuade you. Be patient and excruciatingly persistent in your requirement to hold. Counter the resistance with insistence on holding, even if you must actually hold the dog's head and mouth and bumper in place. Once your dog sees that he cannot win, the resistance will lessen. Praise any real effort and your dog will begin to hold without major struggle.
Once your dog successfully holds the bumper for a period of time, a moment or so, remove the bumper with the command "Drop". If, for any reason your dog attempts to hold on to the bumper, calmly give the "Drop" command again, and rotate the bumper gently counterclockwise in your dog's mouth. This helps to open the jaw slightly, allowing you to remove the bumper. Throughout all these exercises, remain calm but determined. Any wild shows of emotion signals your dog he or she has 'gotten to you', and they can sometimes use that to avoid further work.
After your dog has begun to get the idea, you can correct the dog when the bumper is dropped by cuffing the dog under the muzzle with your open hand, and placing the bumper back in your dog's mouth, while giving the command "Hold". It is an important training principle that a command be taught before pressure is used to enforce the command. Do not apply pressure for refusals to hold, until you feel you have adequately taught the dog clearly what "hold" means. As your dog becomes more successful, have them hold the bumper for longer periods of time. If the bumper is chewed, rolled, dangled or otherwise 'played' with during the hold, treat that as a refusal and give the command to 'hold' again, with a correction of a chin cuff. Your dog will quickly learn to hold the bumper firmly, but gently. You should now be able to walk away and return to your dog, with them calmly holding the bumper all the while.
The final step in the Hold training is to have the dog walk, heel and sit, all while holding the bumper. As reliable as your dog may have been in the 'hold' while sitting, it is almost a sure thing your dog will spit the bumper out as you try to get them to move with it. Be prepared for this, and correct immediately when the bumper is first spit out. Place the bumper back in your dog's mouth and continue to try to move, using the command "Hold" as a reminder.
The goal at this point is to have your dog go through all of your basic obedience drills of heeling, sitting, coming to you, etc., and holding the bumper continuously without dropping. Do not move on until your dog can reliably carry this out. A very trainable dog will complete the 'hold' training in a few days. Some may take longer, but with patience, consistency, calmness and persistence, you will get through this stage.
C. The Ear Pinch
The ear pinch is the key and the heart of the force-fetch. Through this process, your dog will pick up an object on command, in response to pressure. The concept and use of pressure is all-important here. The pain of the ear pinch will be relieved by the act of fetching. That is all you are teaching at this point. It is simple, but critical.
Begin by holding your left hand (if you are right handed) under the leather collar strap located at the back of the dog's ears and skull. You will see why collar position is important momentarily. Beneath the collar, your left hand should reach for your dog's right ear. If you have the hand and nail strength, you can use your thumb and index finger. Most of us use a shot gun shell as the hard object pressed against the sensitive part of the ear, near the ear opening, but not in the ear itself. A pinch at the tip of the ear yields far less pain avoidance than that close to the base of the ear.
Once your hand is positioned to pinch the base of the ear either with the nail of your thumb or index finger, or with the brass base of the shotgun shell against your thumb and index finger, you can begin. Your hold on this position needs to be one you can maintain throughout the exercise. Now, just after saying "Fetch", gently pinch the ear between your thumb and index finger or shotgun shell, while you place the bumper into the dog's mouth with your right hand.
The idea is for the dog to understand that getting the bumper in their mouth relieves the pressure. Continue to repeat the sequence until the dog begins to get the idea. Offer plenty of praise as the dog holds the bumper between command sequences. It sometimes helps your dog's attitude to mix heeling drills with the bumper in their mouth with the fetch command sequences.
If, during the ear pinch, your dog drops the bumper, remind them to 'hold'. On the first day of ear pinch, you can usually get the dog to open their mouth and begin to reach for the bumper. For the first few sessions, you want to hold the bumper just in front of your dog's mouth, so they haven't far to reach. Keep each training session under 15 or 20 minutes, especially in hot weather. Try to make a little progress every day, and end the session on a positive note. This is most easily accomplished by reducing the level of difficulty of the task required near the end of the session. This leaves your dog with some feeling of accomplishment after a difficult and demanding session.
Every day your dog should be required to reach farther for the bumper. This should begin right next to their mouth, and progress slowly toward the ground, if only an inch or so at a time. The bumper should travel eventually to just off the ground. Finally, you will put the bumper on the ground. This 'on the ground' step changes the whole game, and is usually meant with an unexpected resistance. The good progress you made to this point, and you and your dog's feeling of accomplishment can completely vaporize at this step! For some dogs, it is as if they never heard the word Fetch before.
To help the dog through this stage, you can either step on one end of the bumper, elevating the other end and making it easier to reach, or you can lay the bumper on your foot, elevating it in that manner. This seems to ease the dog into the transition of picking the bumper off the ground. The pressure is applied identically at this point, to the way you did the first day. Your left hand should be beneath the collar, with the dog's ear in your pinch-ready mode. Give the command "Fetch" and use the pinch until the dog moves to pick up the bumper. Stop the pinch when the dog reaches for the bumper. Always have your hand under the collar and with ear in hand, no matter how good or poor your dog's response is. Never let them learn they can avoid the pinch by your lack of readiness, but only by reaching for the bumper.
Once the dog is picking the bumper off the ground, give the command to drop and take the bumper. Have your dog heel forward, drop the bumper in front of them, and give the fetch-ear pinch command again. Some dogs may merely put their mouth around the bumper without actually picking the bumper up. In that case, you must heel forward and then repeat the sequence when they inevitably leave the bumper behind. Turn back toward the bumper, give the 'Fetch" command again and be prepared to use the ear pinch to enforce the fetch. As the dog's response improves over time, you will only begin to reach for the ear flap and they will dive for the bumper. This is the response you are looking for: the dog has learned to control the pressure by completing the task quickly.
D. Walking Fetch
As soon as your dog is fetching the bumper off the ground reliably, move right into the 'walking fetch'. Begin by scattering several white bumpers around your training area. As with all drills, this should be an area with very short grass and complete visibility.
Start by heeling the dog on lead. When you approach a bumper, give the "Fetch" command and apply the ear pinch. Do this right from the heeling position while moving, do not put the dog in a sit position before giving the command. After your dog has picked up the bumper, continue to move forward with the dog in the heel position. Remove the bumper with the 'drop' command, either while still moving forward or after stopping, then give a 'sit' command. Discard the bumper behind you and proceed ahead, repeating the whole sequence when you approach the next bumper.
Once your dog is lunging for the bumper on each 'fetch' command sequence, you may begin giving the command without applying the ear pinch. If you get a refusal to 'fetch', you must immediately repeat the 'fetch' command with an ear pinch. You may also walk right past a bumper without giving a fetch command, and keep the dog at a heel with the 'heel' command, not allowing them to pick up the bumper. Your dog must learn to fetch as directed only.
It will usually take 15-25 training days, one session per day and no more, to get your dog through the walking fetch. This sounds very nice on paper, but force fetch is never easy, and can induce all kinds of unusual responses. Your dog may try to escape the ear pressure by moving away from you, or even more likely, responding aggressively and trying to bite you! In the process, force fetch can look more like a wrestling match than controlled dog training. It is important to remain nonemotional and objective during force fetch.
Aggression toward the trainer should never be tolerated, and may even be a sign the dog is unsuitable for further training. Do not allow the dog's aggression to enable them to escape training pressure, because in doing so, you will have reinforced the aggressive response in your dog. Stop it immediately by whatever force is necessary.
Some dogs are quite stoic in response to ear pressure. If your nails are not strong enough, or hands not strong enough to squeeze the shotgun shell between your fingers and your dog's ears, you may not get any response to the ear pinch. Various devices may help overcome your dog's high pain threshold. A single metal-tipped collar prong attached to the dummy collar may create a better ear pinch surface than your finger. You may have to get creative in coming up with an ear pinch device, call us if you need more assistance.
Some dogs exhibit a stubborn response to force fetch pressure. Day after day, you can pinch these dogs and they never get snappy about picking up the bumper, and they may refuse every other 'fetch' command. Both stoic and stubborn dogs often improve their response when plenty of heeling is incorporated into the command sequence. That is, do not just have the dog sit in one place, move forward between each command sequence.
If you make no progress after 15-20 days of force fetch, try putting the whole project on the shelf for a week or two. When you return to force fetch, your dog's response may change completely. We have seen this layoff work for many dogs who otherwise seemed to hit a wall during force fetch.
E. Conclusion
The ease with which your dog masters the force fetch often foretells their reaction to yard work that follows in the whole force program. The dog that learns to master the pressure easily will probably learn to handle more easily (hand signals) than the dog that makes you work for every inch of progress. There are also cases in which dogs were almost impossible to get through the force fetch, only to excel later at advanced work.
Force fetch is the foundation on which all advanced work is premised. With a thorough, patient and persistent approach to force fetch, your dog should emerge with a healthy attitude toward pressure that will serve you well in the training that lies ahead.
I forgot, I would have credit the author and the book this was printed in, but I have no clue, and neither did the pro that sent it to me. If anyone recognizes this, please let me know. thanks.
Chapter 10 - The Force Fetch
By this time you should have established a strong control factor with your dog. This means, your dog should understand that "Heel" means to walk at your side (normally your left, but whatever side you choose), and to "Sit" immediately when you stop. They should also understand whatever command you use directing them to come to you. We use the command "Here", but use what you feel most comfortable with. Just make sure your commands are simple, clear, and are not easily confused with other commands you may use now or in the future. Force fetching is the process by which a dog is trained to pick up an object on command. It is possible to hunt with a dog who is not force fetched, but any training or corrections done on a dog not properly forced may and usually does result in the dog's refusal to retrieve. This can be entirely avoided by having a dog that does not question the command to retrieve.
Force fetching is usually started at six to eight months, after the adult teeth are in completely. There is often pain and discomfort during the transition from baby teeth to adult, and this should not be allowed to interfere with any force training. Up to this point, your dog should have been enthusiastically encouraged to deliver to hand, but you have had no real means to correct any refusal to carry and deliver. After the completion of force fetch, your dog will be far more inclined to deliver to hand, and you will definitely have the means to correct him for dropping birds. A more significant reason exists for force fetching a dog. Force fetch teaches your dog to retrieve under pressure, and to learn to accept and deal with that pressure. This makes the force fetch the foundation for most modern training programs that require a dog to run blinds and handle.
A. Tools Required for Exercises
You will need the following equipment to carry out the force fetch:
• Choke Chain that fits the dog's neck loosely, but not so loose that it can easily be pulled over the head.
• 20 foot lead, preferably nylon so that it will not wear or break with use.
• A 'dummy' electric collar, if you plan on using that down the line, or a wide nylon or leather collar that can fit firmly around your dog's neck, just behind the ears.
• Plastic knobby training dummies, not the 3 inch wide, but the narrower version.
• An empty shotgun shell or other something very similar. You will see the application shortly.
B. The First Step in Force Fetch, the "Hold"
You may have heard or read about the use of a table in the force fetch program. The table does prevent wear on your back, with all the bending over, but it is not necessary, nor is it useful for very long. Most professional trainers these days, get past the 'bending over' part in short order, and find the use of a table to elevate the dog unnecessary. The force fetch begins with the idea of 'holding' on to the bumper until told to release, or "Drop". It would be difficult to teach a dog to pick up something if you have not first taught them not to spit it out as soon as they pick it up.
Begin by placing the bumper in your dog's mouth as he or she sits by your side. You may have to pry their mouth open to put the bumper in. Do not expect your dog to reach for it or even willingly accept the bumper. Use the lead attached to the choke collar, or the dummy collar to prevent your dog from moving away from your side. Say "Hold" when you get the bumper in the dog's mouth, and encourage the hold response with calm but positive praise.
At first, you may have to literally hold the bumper in the mouth in order to get the 'hold' response that you can praise. Some dogs will put up a real battle at this point. Do not let that dissuade you. Be patient and excruciatingly persistent in your requirement to hold. Counter the resistance with insistence on holding, even if you must actually hold the dog's head and mouth and bumper in place. Once your dog sees that he cannot win, the resistance will lessen. Praise any real effort and your dog will begin to hold without major struggle.
Once your dog successfully holds the bumper for a period of time, a moment or so, remove the bumper with the command "Drop". If, for any reason your dog attempts to hold on to the bumper, calmly give the "Drop" command again, and rotate the bumper gently counterclockwise in your dog's mouth. This helps to open the jaw slightly, allowing you to remove the bumper. Throughout all these exercises, remain calm but determined. Any wild shows of emotion signals your dog he or she has 'gotten to you', and they can sometimes use that to avoid further work.
After your dog has begun to get the idea, you can correct the dog when the bumper is dropped by cuffing the dog under the muzzle with your open hand, and placing the bumper back in your dog's mouth, while giving the command "Hold". It is an important training principle that a command be taught before pressure is used to enforce the command. Do not apply pressure for refusals to hold, until you feel you have adequately taught the dog clearly what "hold" means. As your dog becomes more successful, have them hold the bumper for longer periods of time. If the bumper is chewed, rolled, dangled or otherwise 'played' with during the hold, treat that as a refusal and give the command to 'hold' again, with a correction of a chin cuff. Your dog will quickly learn to hold the bumper firmly, but gently. You should now be able to walk away and return to your dog, with them calmly holding the bumper all the while.
The final step in the Hold training is to have the dog walk, heel and sit, all while holding the bumper. As reliable as your dog may have been in the 'hold' while sitting, it is almost a sure thing your dog will spit the bumper out as you try to get them to move with it. Be prepared for this, and correct immediately when the bumper is first spit out. Place the bumper back in your dog's mouth and continue to try to move, using the command "Hold" as a reminder.
The goal at this point is to have your dog go through all of your basic obedience drills of heeling, sitting, coming to you, etc., and holding the bumper continuously without dropping. Do not move on until your dog can reliably carry this out. A very trainable dog will complete the 'hold' training in a few days. Some may take longer, but with patience, consistency, calmness and persistence, you will get through this stage.
C. The Ear Pinch
The ear pinch is the key and the heart of the force-fetch. Through this process, your dog will pick up an object on command, in response to pressure. The concept and use of pressure is all-important here. The pain of the ear pinch will be relieved by the act of fetching. That is all you are teaching at this point. It is simple, but critical.
Begin by holding your left hand (if you are right handed) under the leather collar strap located at the back of the dog's ears and skull. You will see why collar position is important momentarily. Beneath the collar, your left hand should reach for your dog's right ear. If you have the hand and nail strength, you can use your thumb and index finger. Most of us use a shot gun shell as the hard object pressed against the sensitive part of the ear, near the ear opening, but not in the ear itself. A pinch at the tip of the ear yields far less pain avoidance than that close to the base of the ear.
Once your hand is positioned to pinch the base of the ear either with the nail of your thumb or index finger, or with the brass base of the shotgun shell against your thumb and index finger, you can begin. Your hold on this position needs to be one you can maintain throughout the exercise. Now, just after saying "Fetch", gently pinch the ear between your thumb and index finger or shotgun shell, while you place the bumper into the dog's mouth with your right hand.
The idea is for the dog to understand that getting the bumper in their mouth relieves the pressure. Continue to repeat the sequence until the dog begins to get the idea. Offer plenty of praise as the dog holds the bumper between command sequences. It sometimes helps your dog's attitude to mix heeling drills with the bumper in their mouth with the fetch command sequences.
If, during the ear pinch, your dog drops the bumper, remind them to 'hold'. On the first day of ear pinch, you can usually get the dog to open their mouth and begin to reach for the bumper. For the first few sessions, you want to hold the bumper just in front of your dog's mouth, so they haven't far to reach. Keep each training session under 15 or 20 minutes, especially in hot weather. Try to make a little progress every day, and end the session on a positive note. This is most easily accomplished by reducing the level of difficulty of the task required near the end of the session. This leaves your dog with some feeling of accomplishment after a difficult and demanding session.
Every day your dog should be required to reach farther for the bumper. This should begin right next to their mouth, and progress slowly toward the ground, if only an inch or so at a time. The bumper should travel eventually to just off the ground. Finally, you will put the bumper on the ground. This 'on the ground' step changes the whole game, and is usually meant with an unexpected resistance. The good progress you made to this point, and you and your dog's feeling of accomplishment can completely vaporize at this step! For some dogs, it is as if they never heard the word Fetch before.
To help the dog through this stage, you can either step on one end of the bumper, elevating the other end and making it easier to reach, or you can lay the bumper on your foot, elevating it in that manner. This seems to ease the dog into the transition of picking the bumper off the ground. The pressure is applied identically at this point, to the way you did the first day. Your left hand should be beneath the collar, with the dog's ear in your pinch-ready mode. Give the command "Fetch" and use the pinch until the dog moves to pick up the bumper. Stop the pinch when the dog reaches for the bumper. Always have your hand under the collar and with ear in hand, no matter how good or poor your dog's response is. Never let them learn they can avoid the pinch by your lack of readiness, but only by reaching for the bumper.
Once the dog is picking the bumper off the ground, give the command to drop and take the bumper. Have your dog heel forward, drop the bumper in front of them, and give the fetch-ear pinch command again. Some dogs may merely put their mouth around the bumper without actually picking the bumper up. In that case, you must heel forward and then repeat the sequence when they inevitably leave the bumper behind. Turn back toward the bumper, give the 'Fetch" command again and be prepared to use the ear pinch to enforce the fetch. As the dog's response improves over time, you will only begin to reach for the ear flap and they will dive for the bumper. This is the response you are looking for: the dog has learned to control the pressure by completing the task quickly.
D. Walking Fetch
As soon as your dog is fetching the bumper off the ground reliably, move right into the 'walking fetch'. Begin by scattering several white bumpers around your training area. As with all drills, this should be an area with very short grass and complete visibility.
Start by heeling the dog on lead. When you approach a bumper, give the "Fetch" command and apply the ear pinch. Do this right from the heeling position while moving, do not put the dog in a sit position before giving the command. After your dog has picked up the bumper, continue to move forward with the dog in the heel position. Remove the bumper with the 'drop' command, either while still moving forward or after stopping, then give a 'sit' command. Discard the bumper behind you and proceed ahead, repeating the whole sequence when you approach the next bumper.
Once your dog is lunging for the bumper on each 'fetch' command sequence, you may begin giving the command without applying the ear pinch. If you get a refusal to 'fetch', you must immediately repeat the 'fetch' command with an ear pinch. You may also walk right past a bumper without giving a fetch command, and keep the dog at a heel with the 'heel' command, not allowing them to pick up the bumper. Your dog must learn to fetch as directed only.
It will usually take 15-25 training days, one session per day and no more, to get your dog through the walking fetch. This sounds very nice on paper, but force fetch is never easy, and can induce all kinds of unusual responses. Your dog may try to escape the ear pressure by moving away from you, or even more likely, responding aggressively and trying to bite you! In the process, force fetch can look more like a wrestling match than controlled dog training. It is important to remain nonemotional and objective during force fetch.
Aggression toward the trainer should never be tolerated, and may even be a sign the dog is unsuitable for further training. Do not allow the dog's aggression to enable them to escape training pressure, because in doing so, you will have reinforced the aggressive response in your dog. Stop it immediately by whatever force is necessary.
Some dogs are quite stoic in response to ear pressure. If your nails are not strong enough, or hands not strong enough to squeeze the shotgun shell between your fingers and your dog's ears, you may not get any response to the ear pinch. Various devices may help overcome your dog's high pain threshold. A single metal-tipped collar prong attached to the dummy collar may create a better ear pinch surface than your finger. You may have to get creative in coming up with an ear pinch device, call us if you need more assistance.
Some dogs exhibit a stubborn response to force fetch pressure. Day after day, you can pinch these dogs and they never get snappy about picking up the bumper, and they may refuse every other 'fetch' command. Both stoic and stubborn dogs often improve their response when plenty of heeling is incorporated into the command sequence. That is, do not just have the dog sit in one place, move forward between each command sequence.
If you make no progress after 15-20 days of force fetch, try putting the whole project on the shelf for a week or two. When you return to force fetch, your dog's response may change completely. We have seen this layoff work for many dogs who otherwise seemed to hit a wall during force fetch.
E. Conclusion
The ease with which your dog masters the force fetch often foretells their reaction to yard work that follows in the whole force program. The dog that learns to master the pressure easily will probably learn to handle more easily (hand signals) than the dog that makes you work for every inch of progress. There are also cases in which dogs were almost impossible to get through the force fetch, only to excel later at advanced work.
Force fetch is the foundation on which all advanced work is premised. With a thorough, patient and persistent approach to force fetch, your dog should emerge with a healthy attitude toward pressure that will serve you well in the training that lies ahead.
This is something that I read almost everyday when FF ace. It was great guidelines, and more importantly, it kept reminding me to stay calm.
Staying calm and not losing your temper is the biggest part of this, It is not your dog. If you will stay calm and focused, you will eventially get throught this. Don't worry about how long it takes, or if your friend did it in a month or if a pro tells you it should only take 5 wks.
Just take yours and your dogs own time and pace, and you will eventually have one of the best dogs in the marsh. :thumbsup:
Staying calm and not losing your temper is the biggest part of this, It is not your dog. If you will stay calm and focused, you will eventially get throught this. Don't worry about how long it takes, or if your friend did it in a month or if a pro tells you it should only take 5 wks.
Just take yours and your dogs own time and pace, and you will eventually have one of the best dogs in the marsh. :thumbsup:
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