[johnny4u2nv]

Wad CB1114-12 1 1/4oz optimum
Good to know about not reading signs of pressure with shot shells.

Trust me. I have reloaded a LOT of rifle and shotgun loads since i 1st began reloading back in 1989. I've also been reloading pistol rounds for a few years. I can say beyond doubt that shotgun shells do NOT show signs of pressure the same way that rifle loads do. BUT you can look at the base of the shell head and if the edge of the rim has a bevel? If it does it's over pressure. If the identification stamp (Winchester, Remington, Cheddite etc.) on the base of the case head seems less legible, it's over pressure. The problem is pressures in shotgun shells can vary a LOT depending on whether they are roll crimped or fold crimped. The can vary a SIGNIFICANTLY depending on the depths of the roll crimps. Pressures in fold crimped shells can vary significantly depending on how tight or deep the folds are. Using a GAEP slug roll crimper purchased from BPI I put a finish tapering roll crimp on all my fold crimped loads. This gives me more consistent ignition, more consistent pressures, and more consistent fps readings. But most importantly, at least to me anyway, is that I don't have fold crimped ammunition coming unfolded in my shell boxes. I can't stand having loose shot rolling around due to crimps that have popped back open. Now with all of that said allow me to add this. You DO NOT want to load ammo up around the upper limits of the pressure spectrum and then put a tight finishing roll crimp on top of that. I don't like to load anything fold crimped over 10,000 PSI because of the way I finish my loads. I don't know if any of that was useful to you or anyone else but regardless there it is.

 

[flyndutchman]

You are flawed in your observation of buulged case heads being a sign of over pressure. More often it is a sign that the hull is loose in a chamber that is large for spec. I have seen some guns do this to every hull fired in them. Similar with the myth that cratered primers are a sign of over pressure in shotshells. Almost every Federal primer looks cratered after firing. Is the nature of the material they use for the striking surface of the primer. Long story short, there are no reliable signs. Carry on.

 

[johnny4u2nv]

You are flawed in your observation of buulged case heads being a sign of over pressure. More often it is a sign that the hull is loose in a chamber that is large for spec. I have seen some guns do this to every hull fired in them. Similar with the myth that cratered primers are a sign of over pressure in shotshells. Almost every Federal primer looks cratered after firing. Is the nature of the material they use for the striking surface of the primer. Long story short, there are no reliable signs. Carry on.

I completely agree that there's no guaranteed reliable signs of shotgun pressure. However, I loaded some hot 1¼ oz loads using Hodgdon data with Long Shot Powder. Every time I shot one when I sat the hull down on a flat top table the hull would wobble. They also had more recoil than I cared for. Regardless of if they were over pressure or not I didn't shoot anymore of them. They were beating me and my old 1100 up. I have over 40 cases of dove loads loaded right now on the shelves on my reloading room. I have shot every run on paper as well as over my Garmin or Caldwell chronographs. Non of those loads bulge the bottom of the case heads. Whether I was right or wrong, regarding the over pressure signs that I stated, I myself personally am not gonna shoot any ammunition that causes my hulls to look like that. TY for your insight and I should have either relayed what I was attempting to say little bit better. Or just kept my fingers on my TVs remote control and my opinion to myself. I won't waste my time responding to another post or question ever again. I'll just read topics for my own personal entertainment or furthering education. I'm most assuredly NOT attempting to cause an altercation or spout negativity. Im too old for that and I simply just do not care. And as proof I won't respond to anymore comments on this subject and probably no others for thst matter.

 

[Jim Atlas]

Well, that's not the forum way! You're supposed to fling insults and half-truths like a monkey throwing poo at the crowd.
Just kidding.

This forum has died down from it's former blood and guts days; it's easier to say your mind and not start a sword fight.

I will say, I've heard, from those I thought much of, about reading shotshells for high pressure signs. And I've heard, from those I thought much of, about how that's impossible.

I'd put my money on a "sometimes" answer. Meaning, there's so much variation in hulls and primers--and chambers for that matter--that I bet there are some that WILL show signs of high pressure at a usefully low pressure level (say, under 15,000 psi), and others that WILL NOT. But that's just a bet based on zero evidence.

 

[johnny4u2nv]

Well, that's not the forum way! You're supposed to fling insults and half-truths like a monkey throwing poo at the crowd.
Just kidding.

This forum has died down from it's former blood and guts days; it's easier to say your mind and not start a sword fight.

I will say, I've heard, from those I thought much of, about reading shotshells for high pressure signs. And I've heard, from those I thought much of, about how that's impossible.

I'd put my money on a "sometimes" answer. Meaning, there's so much variation in hulls and primers--and chambers for that matter--that I bet there are some that WILL show signs of high pressure at a usefully low pressure level (say, under 15,000 psi), and others that WILL NOT. But that's just a bet based on zero evidence.

I will respond to you. I have enough "life" to worry about without arguing with strangers about things that are useless to argue about or that if you could prove beyond doubt you're still the idiot. I was merely stating a FACT according to MY OPINION. I appreciate the humor in which you replied. I enjoy cutting up and BSN. I retired as a FF so I am accustomed to joking and cutting up. 8ve also reloaded and shot more ammunition that a 18 wheeler trailer could haul. I'm pretty sure that in my past 35+ years of reloading I've learned a thing or 10? I've colored outside the line enough to know when I should change crayons.

 

[johnny4u2nv]

Well, that's not the forum way! You're supposed to fling insults and half-truths like a monkey throwing poo at the crowd.
Just kidding.

This forum has died down from it's former blood and guts days; it's easier to say your mind and not start a sword fight.

I will say, I've heard, from those I thought much of, about reading shotshells for high pressure signs. And I've heard, from those I thought much of, about how that's impossible.

I'd put my money on a "sometimes" answer. Meaning, there's so much variation in hulls and primers--and chambers for that matter--that I bet there are some that WILL show signs of high pressure at a usefully low pressure level (say, under 15,000 psi), and others that WILL NOT. But that's just a bet based on zero evidence.

I went to the doctor for my 6 month checkup this morning and my BP was 184/82 and I was idling, lol. I can't afford to get upset these days. I live in Alabama but my love is is shy fulls of dove flying around in Kanas, Texas, Arizona, etc. I have planted 5 fields of sunflowers, milo, dove proso millet and brown top millet. Knock on wood I can handle a scattergun pretty good. 12-15 per box of shells and even better if I pick and choose my shots. Ibsaud that to say this. I'll be lucky if I get 3 limits of birds and have 3 or 4 more shoots where I kill 6 or 8?

 

[bassmaster624]

Loading up shells to see how they shoot. When steel for come out. Loading 2 with x amount of powder would rip the crimp off blow the primers out. Next 2 would Crack the brass in both hulls. Some would push the primers out part way. I would says these wer over pressure and easy to tell. This is the extreme. Gun can handle more then what you think . When the bang is alot loader or the gun jumps up in the air. You can tell about pressure. I'd start lowing the charge. When I got it where it was more then the book said but shot fine I would use it never had any issues. I tried to blow a gun up but couldn't.powder used red dot 4756 Alcan 5 and 7.. red dot was the worse for taking hulls out. This isn't a good practice and I probably should say any thing. It was stupid. But I learned and was lucky.

 

[johnny4u2nv]

Loading up shells to see how they shoot. When steel for come out. Loading 2 with x amount of powder would rip the crimp off blow the primers out. Next 2 would Crack the brass in both hulls. Some would push the primers out part way. I would says these wer over pressure and easy to tell. This is the extreme. Gun can handle more then what you think . When the bang is alot loader or the gun jumps up in the air. You can tell about pressure. I'd start lowing the charge. When I got it where it was more then the book said but shot fine I would use it never had any issues. I tried to blow a gun up but couldn't.powder used red dot 4756 Alcan 5 and 7.. red dot was the worse for taking hulls out. This isn't a good practice and I probably should say any thing. It was stupid. But I learned and was lucky.

I'm NOT advocating this, BUT... Were talking some distance and pulling the trigger with a string!!! If you want to do what you were talking about just use a fast burning powder and a healthy dose of TSS. For the record those were DEFINITELY OVER PRESSURE, lol

 

[Tbrown in GA]

Edit... i see you and Jim posted while I was typing, bit since Jim and I say same thing, I will leave my answer as is...

Short answer, cut them apart and salvage components, don't shoot. But read below, because I think the fact this happened despite many warning signs and redflags being missed by your Dad, tells me there is a serious problem with him reloading.

There are zero signs of overpressure as you describe, with shotgun loading. By serious overpressure for shotguns, the metallic reloading signs you kinda refer to, don't yet exist. Uhhmm... if your Dad has been reloading shotgun for 55 years, he should know this, it is like the 1st thing written in every shotgun reloading book.

Additionally, it sounds like your Dad loaded up a bunch of shells, and never actually weighed the shot, just assuming a volume drop from a bar was accurate? This indicates poor reloading methods and habits, I generally weigh 10 shot drops on a new load to ensure correct drops.

Using a 1-1/4oz recipe, but planning and using 1-1/8oz instead and with reduced powder, again are poor technique. There are thousands of 1-1/8oz book recipes if that was what he really wanted, you don't use a 1-1/4oz and just wing it with a shot and powder reduction. Yes, probably safe, but no idea what pressures or speeds are likely.

Also, not recognizing steel shot vs lead shot INSTANTLY upon filling reservoir, indicates a problem.

Lastly, your Dad should be able to look up what he actually loaded at Hodgdonreloading.com, BPI, or other sources and ascertain how it compares to steel shot recipes with Longshot... it should be the 1st thing he did upon discovering this, and take him 1 or 2 minutes. The fact he didn't, and any question on this load remains, again points to a serious lack of reloading knowledge and understanding.

I'm not sugar coating this here, obviously, but I wouldn't let him keep reloading, honestly, just too many warning signs there. And I sure wouldn't shoot any ammo he made. He needs to reread a book, like Lyman’s, and relook at recipe sources for his powder, Hodgdonreloading.com, before he thinks about continuing to reload.
-----
All that being said, your post was good and good question. However, when asking about a loads safety, you absolutely need to give the complete load--how is anyone going to look at data to give an answer? You didn't say hull, primer, wad, or shot size.
Looking at my steel shot spreadsheet for Longshot powder, 7/8oz 12ga 2.75" loads, I find 27 loads listed with longshot between 28 and 34.5gn and 7/8oz steel shot, using various hulls, primers and wads. With speeds up 1600fps or so, but safe pressures. The problem is, what wad did he use? Probably not a steel wad to protect the barrel, expect rub through and shot to rub barrel. The first difference in steel shot reloading is special wads must be used.
If he used a steel wad, it likely would be fine to shoot them, depending on hull, primer, wad. But with lead wads, I wouldn't.

Best regards, good luck!

Dave, can you post the link to that longshot powder spreadsheet you’re talking about for steel shot going 1600fps? Trying to find alternative recipes with powders other than Alliant steel that will push those velocities.

 

[Dave in AZ]

Dave, can you post the link to that longshot powder spreadsheet you’re talking about for steel shot going 1600fps? Trying to find alternative recipes with powders other than Alliant steel that will push those velocities.

Sorry, it is just a spreadsheet on my computer. No link, not public, way too many proprietary loads.
But here is a blog I wrote on non-Asteel loads, with info from there filtered out, a pretty good number of loads.

12 ga “Non Alliant Steel” steel-shot loads

Some people desire a good waterfowl load that can be produced without using Alliant Steel powder since they can’t acquire any. I’ll cover some publicly published loads with powders tha…

pipesf16.wordpress.com

 

[Tbrown in GA]

Sorry, it is just a spreadsheet on my computer. No link, not public, way too many proprietary loads.
But here is a blog I wrote on non-Asteel loads, with info from there filtered out, a pretty good number of loads.

12 ga “Non Alliant Steel” steel-shot loads

Some people desire a good waterfowl load that can be produced without using Alliant Steel powder since they can’t acquire any. I’ll cover some publicly published loads with powders tha…

pipesf16.wordpress.com

Thanks Dave I appreciate you sharing!

 

[Tman5.9]

@Dave in AZ hey can you get o hold of me I’ve got some questions for 20g reloading thanks you

 

[Dave in AZ]

@Dave in AZ hey can you get o hold of me I’ve got some questions for 20g reloading thanks you

Read my blog, here is a 20ga article to start, peruse the menu

20 ga 2.75″ HW13 Load

Whenever I’m loading up a recipe, and I start having to put in all sorts of spacers to fill up the hull, I want to move down to a shorter hull and simplify the recipe. There are a lot of 20g…

pipesf16.wordpress.com

Then post questions here in public, so others can answer or get value from any answers single person PMs are the most wasteful method of spreading info on internet, no one else gets use of it.

You can find some good duck load info on posts by @flyndutchman as well as some others, read some threads here by me or him to see who else answers 20ga stuff, I bet every question you have we have probably an answer just sitting like a gold nugget, waiting for you to dig it up